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Let's talk about Demons.

Would you please answer, how you know, that a response can be pathetic and worthy of contempt?


Are you serious?

In the movie Henry Drummond asks questions of Matthew Harrison Brady, and he just responds with that "I don't think about things I don't think about" line.

The people in the courthouse laughed at him as I would have done.
 
Are you serious?

In the movie Henry Drummond asks questions of Matthew Harrison Brady, and he just responds with that "I don't think about things I don't think about" line.

The people in the courthouse laughed at him as I would have done.

Yes, I am serious. You judge people according to the following standard, namely that they must question everything they believe, hold as true/a fact and so on.

So now I am going to question that - have you ever questioned your claim that all people must question everything they believe in? How do you know that it is fact of how the universe works or could it be a subjective and personal belief and thus not a scientific fact?
In other words, you must answer according to your own universal standard; i.e. everybody must question all beliefs; whether everybody must question all beliefs, is a belief itself or a scientific fact?
Have you ever thought about that or has it never occurred to you to question that?

Remember this is a site for skeptics. :) So you question your own claims according to the same methodology you apply on everybody else.
 
Yes, I am serious. You judge people according to the following standard, namely that they must question everything they believe, hold as true/a fact and so on.

So now I am going to question that - have you ever questioned your claim that all people must question everything they believe in? How do you know that it is fact of how the universe works or could it be a subjective and personal belief and thus not a scientific fact?
In other words, you must answer according to your own universal standard; i.e. everybody must question all beliefs; whether everybody must question all beliefs, is a belief itself or a scientific fact?
Have you ever thought about that or has it never occurred to you to question that?

Remember this is a site for skeptics. :) So you question your own claims according to the same methodology you apply on everybody else.

See the thread about spreading ashes.
 
Brady was being questioned about stuff in the Bible - a book he was an authority on. He should think about these things.
Why? Because you say so? You, who are very explicitly not an authority on these things? Don't you think an actual authority on a subject is better placed to determine what is and is not worth thinking about than someone who isn't an authority?
 
Why? Because you say so? You, who are very explicitly not an authority on these things? Don't you think an actual authority on a subject is better placed to determine what is and is not worth thinking about than someone who isn't an authority?


Oh give me as break! Perhaps you should write to the producer of "Inherit the Wind" and explain it to them also as they appear to have got it all wrong.

I don't think I have ever in my life responded to someone's enquiry or statement with a comment like "I don't think about stuff like that". I might have said "I have not thought about stuff like that" and if some evidence is given that sound plausible will follow it up.
 
Oh give me as break! Perhaps you should write to the producer of "Inherit the Wind" and explain it to them also as they appear to have got it all wrong.

I don't think I have ever in my life responded to someone's enquiry or statement with a comment like "I don't think about stuff like that". I might have said "I have not thought about stuff like that" and if some evidence is given that sound plausible will follow it up.
I will grant that that is a reasonable distinction. But I still don't think that you ought to be the one telling an acknowledged expert what aspects of his subject are or are not worth thinking about. Did it ever occur to you that he might have thought about it for just long enough to have dismissed it as beneath consideration and because of this, he no longer thinks about it?

Do you think about Bigfoot often, for example? Personally, I've thought about it for long enough to have dismissed all possibility of its existence, and now I don't think about stuff like that.
 
Why? Because you say so? You, who are very explicitly not an authority on these things? Don't you think an actual authority on a subject is better placed to determine what is and is not worth thinking about than someone who isn't an authority?

In the case of the bible, no.

Which bible? Which translation? Which Apocrypha?

How much of it is allegory? What do those allegories mean?

You may as well be an expert on Nostradamus' quatrains.
 
Are you seriously denying the existence of Bible experts?

No, I am seriously saying they aren't worth a tin of ****. You may as well spend 30 years studying your navel as studying the bible.

Which "bible expert" do you believe?

Pick a Lutheran, a Catholic, a Bretheren, an Orthodox and a Methodist and see if they agree on the bible and what it actually says. They don't even agree on the bleeding Apocrypha!

Maybe we should get the opinion of a couple of Harry Potter experts? Or do you think Shakespeare would be more appropriate? Nah, Lewis Carroll or JRR Tolkien, I think. You wouldn't credit it, but people even disagree with me on interpreting George Orwell!

As if.

I'll bet you that for every bible "expert" you can find, I can find another bible "expert" who disagrees with them on at least one part of the bible.
 
When I was a child I believed in demons. The Exorcist scared the living bejeebus out of me. I suffered night terrors for years, imagining the possessed girl waiting for me in the darkness of the hallway between my bedroom and the bathroom. I hated that scar-cheeked, glowing-eyed bitch. The beast-faced statue of Pazuzu, and the "subliminal" shots of the white-faced demon scattered through the movie were like living things to me -- real, actual beings that existed to terrorize my sweet widdle believer soul.

Then I grew up. I realized that these ideas were promulgated by religious authorities to sell guilt relief and control society. That living in fear was a waste of time. Now at 47 years of age, I am amazed that anyone over the age of 11 can accept these ideas as real. Invisible entities tormenting the living? How absurd. There are enough horrors in the visible world to fuel my anxieties, thanks.
 
When I was a child I believed in demons. The Exorcist scared the living bejeebus out of me. I suffered night terrors for years, imagining the possessed girl waiting for me in the darkness of the hallway between my bedroom and the bathroom. I hated that scar-cheeked, glowing-eyed bitch. The beast-faced statue of Pazuzu, and the "subliminal" shots of the white-faced demon scattered through the movie were like living things to me -- real, actual beings that existed to terrorize my sweet widdle believer soul.

Then I grew up. I realized that these ideas were promulgated by religious authorities to sell guilt relief and control society. That living in fear was a waste of time. Now at 47 years of age, I am amazed that anyone over the age of 11 can accept these ideas as real. Invisible entities tormenting the living? How absurd. There are enough horrors in the visible world to fuel my anxieties, thanks.

Yes indeed and speak with such authority about these demon guys.

I am a bit disappointed I can't get a theist to give me a reasonable explanation about where demons come from. We have had it suggested they were all angels and jumped ship with the Devil. This I have heard/read about before but raises a couple of questions.

- How many of these defective angels did God make? It just doesn't look good on God's C.V.

- Were not all angels created equal? How come we have the big nasty one, the Devil, and a heap of smaller demon guys.
 
No, I am seriously saying they aren't worth a tin of ****. You may as well spend 30 years studying your navel as studying the bible.
That you disagree with them does not mean that they aren't experts. And, remember, we are talking specifically about interpretation of the Bible.

Which "bible expert" do you believe?
The one who was called as a witness in the specific incident that we are talking about.

I'm very well aware of your general disgust and arrogant condescension towards all aspects of religion. You don't need to come here to post an anti-religion rant when we are talking about a specific piece of religious interpretation. That's like barging in on a discussion about who makes the best steak and ranting about veganism. No-one cares about your opinion. Can we go back to discussing the subject without interruption now?
 
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Yes indeed and speak with such authority about these demon guys.

I am a bit disappointed I can't get a theist to give me a reasonable explanation about where demons come from. We have had it suggested they were all angels and jumped ship with the Devil. This I have heard/read about before but raises a couple of questions.

- How many of these defective angels did God make? It just doesn't look good on God's C.V.

- Were not all angels created equal? How come we have the big nasty one, the Devil, and a heap of smaller demon guys.

In terms f the highlight I remember being told (in church) the 1/3 of the demons rebelled with Lucifer. Googling the question links to a number of sites also quoting the 1/3 figure. e.g https://gotquestions.org/one-third-angels.html.

The logical leaps on that page are rather questionable, but this seems to be accepted doctrine.

For a more modern take on Demons the following book, while fictional, was seen as portraying a realistic idea of what demons and angels are like:

https://www.amazon.com/This-Present-Darkness-Frank-Peretti/dp/0842361715

Note especially the reviews by Christians of this book.
 
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Angels are scary. Modern media likes to present them as blond supermodels with dove wings, but there are descriptions of angels as burning wheels covered in eyes, radially symmetric creatures with multiple beast heads, creatures of living flame and lightning, and so on.
A lot more Lovecraftian than we usually see in paintings and movies.
 
In terms f the highlight I remember being told (in church) the 1/3 of the demons rebelled with Lucifer. Googling the question links to a number of sites also quoting the 1/3 figure. e.g https://gotquestions.org/one-third-angels.html.

The logical leaps on that page are rather questionable, but this seems to be accepted doctrine.

For a more modern take on Demons the following book, while fictional, was seen as portraying a realistic idea of what demons and angels are like:

https://www.amazon.com/This-Present-Darkness-Frank-Peretti/dp/0842361715

Note especially the reviews by Christians of this book.


Thanks for that DarthFishy, I am learning a lot here. One in three angels not up to scratch? Doesn't look good I think.
 
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Not according to what I remember from my Christian upbringing. Archangels like Lucifer and Gabriel are superior to ordinary angels, and there are different orders of angels e.g seraphim and cherubim.

Wiki says Judaism has 10 ranks of angels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_angelic_hierarchy


Thanks to you also Pixel. This stuff gets funnier by the minute.

I just wonder about God creating angels of different caliber and if he created man with the same idea?
 

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