Lee Harvey Oswald...

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by Aoidoi [/i]

Re:
quote:
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Originally posted by Rouser2
His girlfriend told me.

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>>Well, at least you have a sense of humor.

It's no joke. Oswald's girlfriend (his mistress in 1963) is alive and well and living in Holland.


>>Simultaneous shots? How would they pull that off? And why? Seems like overkill.


That was the whole idea.

-- Rouser

 

[kittynh]

hhmmm, I wish I could remember the book I recently read about the woman that Oswalds wife was living with during the time before the shooting. She was a very kind and giving person, who thought Oswald was a nasty violent guy, who saw no future for himself and his dreams of "glory" falling into a pit of lower class poverty and drearyness. He wanted to be a big shot, and he was smart, but he couldn't do it the regular way. You got the feeling that this smart guy wanted the short cut to being "somebody".

At least no one is saying that the Russians switched Oswald in Russia for a double. The family acutually agreed to an autopsy, which goes to show they don't always think clearly. Joe Nickell proved it was Oswald using ear prints, without DNA testing.

 

[Aoidoi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

It's no joke. Oswald's girlfriend (his mistress in 1963) is alive and well and living in Holland.

Well then, I retract my statement about your sense of humor.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm

>>Simultaneous shots? How would they pull that off? And why? Seems like overkill.


That was the whole idea.

To have an unnecessarily complex plot which increased the risk of discovery with little to gain by way of justification? And doesn't a two bullet theory still mean that Oswald shot him, which you are arguing against above?

Was Lex Luthor involved in this plan, by any chance?

 

[Grammatron]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Was Lex Luthor involved in this plan, by any chance?

Dang it Aoidoi you owe me a new keyboard; this is the last time I drink anything while reading this forum.

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by Aoidoi [/i]

>>To have an unnecessarily complex plot which increased the risk of discovery with little to gain by way of justification?

I don't know how you can argue with "success".

>> And doesn't a two bullet theory still mean that Oswald shot him, which you are arguing against above?

Of course not. There surely were shots from behind, fired by someone.


-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by Aoidoi [/i]

>>Well then, I retract my statement about your sense of humor.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm


Serious scholars do not view professer McAdams as an open minded JFK assassantion researcher. What he has done is to flood the internet with his sophomoric essays on his various web pages, but his one-sided bias and inherent dishonesty betrays him.


http://home.switchboard.com/JUDYTH

-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by kittynh [/i]


>>hhmmm, I wish I could remember the book I recently read about the woman that Oswalds wife was living with during the time before the shooting.

It was probably "Ruth Paine's Garage".

>> She was a very kind and giving person, who thought Oswald was a nasty violent guy,

She was so kind that it was she who helped Oswald procure his job at the Texas School Book Depository, which made it so convenient for him to assassinate the President -- or rather, to be set up as a patsy. Oswald got that job the old fashioned way. One stranger (Ruth Paine) phoned another stranger (TSBD Mrg. Roy Truly) that this nice fella she knew needed a job. So Truly hired him. Sound perfectly plausible? One stranger calls another stranger about a third stranger and he gets the job. Happens every day. And we owe it all to that nice lady, Ruth Paine.

>>...who saw no future for himself and his dreams of "glory" falling into a pit of lower class poverty and drearyness. He wanted to be a big shot, and he was smart, but he couldn't do it the regular way. You got the feeling that this smart guy wanted the short cut to being "somebody".

Of course that's all a bunch of garbage. LHO's only real failing was his blind patriotism.


-- Rouser

 

[Regnad Kcin]

...two simutaneous shots to the head -- one from the back, one from the front..

Oh my. Oh my oh my oh my.

Folks, we had a spirited and lengthy discussion with Rouser/Rouser2 on a JFK assassination thread quite some time back. After a time it became obvious that he/she was in no way interested in anything having to do with logic or reasoned analysis. He/she is a true believer. And after forty years you aren't gonna make him/her budge.

"I talked to his girlfriend?" Oh my.

 

[DrChinese]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by DrChinese [/i]


>>Did you forget that he murdered Policeman J.D. Tippitts in broad daylight? There were plenty of witnesses to that. He was caught with the handgun that killed him as well. In fact, he tried to use it to shoot the arresting officers.

The difficulty with that is the fact that the slugs in Tippit's body did not match up with the shells found at the scene. Moroever the shells found at the scene did not have the initials of the officer who found them, though he claimed to have intialed the shells.

As to the witnesses to the Tippit shooting, there was in fact only one who claimed to have seen the actual shooting -- Helen Markham, and she testifed that the man she saw did not look like Oswald, but was short, kind of stocky with a ruddy complexion. The Warren Commission then concluded that she identiifed Oswald as the shooter, but she did not. Not that the Tippit shooting proves anything about the assassination of the President. Another witness, Avilia Clemmons said she saw two men running away from the scene just after the shooting -- one she described as short and stocky. Ms. Clemmons, however, was not called as a witness.

>>Oswald had also tried to assassinate a local political figure a few months earlier with his famous rifle (the one he was photographed with by Marina and found on the 6th floor). He missed.

Another conclusion unsupported by any fact. Somebody took a shot at General Walker's house. There is reason to believe that incident was in fact a ruse. As to the rifle, there is no incontrovertable evidence that Oswald even owned such a rifle.

>>Better go back to square one and read up a bit more.

Oh, I rather think you have pretty well demonstrated your own lack of scholarship on the subject.

-- Rouser

I think you have demonstrated that you reject all evidence that runs counter to your conclusion. You said that Oswald never shot anyone and he did. If you reject that he owned the rifle he was pictured with, that witnesses saw him shoot a cop, etc. then you are essentially saying that it was random chance he was found in a movie house with a gun that had just been fired. Or that he worked where the assassination rifle was found. Etc. You are welcome to your opinion but you are obscuring the facts with your statements. The facts contradict you in virtually every respect.

 

[corplinx]

Congratulations Rouse on being the first guy to ever be thoroughly pimpslapped by DrChinese in a thread.

Oswald shot Kennedy. They should make that a true or false question to determine voting eligibility.

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by DrChinese [/i]

>>I think you have demonstrated that you reject all evidence that runs counter to your conclusion.

Another conclusion of your own, unsupported by any fact. Of course it is not evidence your are referring to, but assertions, conclusions, and sloganeering as repeatedly chanted by the mindless uninformed.

>>You said that Oswald never shot anyone and he did.

That, Dr. C, is not evidence but a conclusion. Do you understand the difference?

>> If you reject that he owned the rifle he was pictured with,

The backyard photos used to convict Oswald in the Court of Public Opinion are demonstrably fake.

>>>...that witnesses saw him shoot a cop, etc.

Only one witness claimed to have seen a man shoot a cop, and she described someone quite unlike Oswald. Get your facts straight.

>>... then you are essentially saying that it was random chance he was found in a movie house with a gun that had just been fired.

Of course, I never said any such thing.

>> Or that he worked where the assassination rifle was found.

A whole lot of people worked there. But that is not proof that any of them shot the president.


>>... You are welcome to your opinion but you are obscuring the facts with your statements. The facts contradict you in virtually every respect.

You still don't understand the difference between fact and conclusion. You haven't cited a single fact proving the LHO didi it much less that he did it alone.

-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by DrChinese [/i]

>>I think you have demonstrated that you reject all evidence that runs counter to your conclusion.

Another conclusion of your own, unsupported by any fact. Of course it is not evidence your are referring to, but assertions, conclusions, and sloganeering as repeatedly chanted by the mindless uninformed.

>>You said that Oswald never shot anyone and he did.

That, Dr. C, is not evidence but a conclusion. Do you understand the difference?

>> If you reject that he owned the rifle he was pictured with,

The backyard photos used to convict Oswald in the Court of Public Opinion are demonstrably fake.

>>>...that witnesses saw him shoot a cop, etc.

Only one witness claimed to have seen a man shoot a cop, and she described someone quite unlike Oswald. Get your facts straight.

>>... then you are essentially saying that it was random chance he was found in a movie house with a gun that had just been fired.

Of course, I never said any such thing.

>> Or that he worked where the assassination rifle was found.

A whole lot of people worked there. But that is not proof that any of them shot the president.


>>... You are welcome to your opinion but you are obscuring the facts with your statements. The facts contradict you in virtually every respect.

You still don't understand the difference between fact and conclusion. You haven't cited a single fact proving the LHO did it much less that he did it alone. I refer you to your great ancestor Confucious who once said "When the student is ready, the teacher appears." Your ain't ready yet, kiddo.

-- Rouser

 

[Mike B.]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

>>>...that witnesses saw him shoot a cop, etc.

Only one witness claimed to have seen a man shoot a cop, and she described someone quite unlike Oswald. Get your facts straight.


-- Rouser

If you mean Helen Markam, you are being a little less than honest here. She identified Oswald in a police lineup.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Okay, lets just think about Oswald a second.

Things we know:

#1 He was in the military, was taught Russian in the military, he had security clearance, and monitored US flights over Russia.

#2 He was honorably discharged.

#3 Was was on the news passing out flyers on Marxism and talking to reporters right in the middle of an area where the FBI had offices.

#4 He went to Mexico City just prior to the assissniation, and at that time (something that we now know that we didn't then) the US was using the Mexican Embassy to inflitrate Cuba. The Mexican Embassy was a US spy front into Cuba.

There is more, but just to focus on that part first.

Has there EVER been a case of an assassin getting himself on the news and whatnot just prior to an assassination?

That alone is very strange.

Secondly, his military record obviously shows that he was involved in US military intelligence.

There is a lot more to him then just this, but IMO, he was NOT a real Marxist, he was setup as a fall guy by the people behind the assassination.

#5 He killed Kennedy. Acted alone. Get over it.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Fantasy from Rouser.

Keep in mind that Rouser2 believes that the moon landing was a hoax.

 

[Aoidoi]

Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

#5 He killed Kennedy. Acted alone. Get over it.

Er, you're a bit late on this one, Malachi has already revised his opinion on Oswald. Rouser is the last bearer of "truth" here.

So far in this thread we've got Oswald being some sort of super sekrit government spook, but was being framed and didn't shoot anybody including the cop.

We've also got McAdams "flooding the internet" by (horror of horrors) putting up a website. With a nice dash of the No True Scotsman thrown in.

We've got simultaneous shots from front and back which does not include Oswald, but two other shooters (at least) without any theory on where they were, how they managed to time their shots to the millisecond, how they avoided detection, who they were, and why they bothered with multiple shots to the head when, as a general rule, one bullet to the brain tends to do the job. There are plausible answers to any number of these questions, but I'm fascinated to see what Rouser will come up with in his creative post hoc analysis.

 

[Suddenly]

Oswald shot Kennedy. They should make that a true or false question to determine voting eligibility.

OK this last sentence and the "True Believer" talk is giving me a flashback to the movie of the same name. Remember that one? James Woods and Robert Downey Jr.?

They found that witness that said the guy arrested didn't commit the murder, problem was that he also believed the phone company shot Kennedy? They put him on the stand, and when the prosecutor asked the guy "Who shot Kennedy?" Woods jumped up and down objecting and screaming.

The guy blurted out "Lee ... Harvey .... Oswald."

This was more or less taken as proof of sanity.

Just thought I'd mention that.

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by Mike B. [/i]


quote:
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Originally posted by Rouser2

Originally posted by Rouser2


>>>...that witnesses saw him shoot a cop, etc.

Only one witness claimed to have seen a man shoot a cop, and she described someone quite unlike Oswald. Get your facts straight.


-- Rouser
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>>If you mean Helen Markam, you are being a little less than honest here. She identified Oswald in a police lineup


The following is an excerpt from Helen Markham's Warren Commision testimony. Obviously, the conclusion that Markham identified Oswald in a police lineup is what seems to be a little less than honest:

Mr. Ball.
Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?
Mrs. Markham.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.
Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?
Mrs. Markham.
No, sir.
Mr. Ball.
You did not? Did you see anybody--I have asked you that question before did you recognize anybody from their face?
Mrs. Markham.
From their face, no.
Mr. Ball.
Did you identify anybody in these four people?
Mrs. Markham.
I didn't know nobody.
Mr. Ball.
I know you didn't know anybody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?
Mrs. Markham.
No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.
Mr. Ball.
No one of the four?
Mrs. Markham.
No one of them.
Mr. Ball.
No one of all four?
Mrs. Markham.
No, sir.

Markham later confessed she selected the number two man based on getting "cold chills".

Your witness.


-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by Aoidoi [/i]


>>We've got simultaneous shots from front and back which does not include Oswald, but two other shooters (at least) without any theory on where they were, how they managed to time their shots to the millisecond, how they avoided detection, who they were, and why they bothered with multiple shots to the head when, as a general rule, one bullet to the brain tends to do the job. There are plausible answers to any number of these questions, but I'm fascinated to see what Rouser will come up with in his creative post hoc analysis.


It's an idiotic critique. That's my analysis.When the student is ready, the teacher appears. You may go to the back of the class. In the corner with Dr. Chinese. I only discuss evidence. Strawmen are not evidence.

-- Rouser

 

[Mike B.]

If you want to cut and paste from Markham. Here is another part:

"Mr. Ball.
Did you recognize the man from his clothing or from his face?
Mrs. Markham.
Mostly from his face.
Mr. Ball.
Were you sure it was the same man you had seen before?
Mrs. Markham.
I am sure."