• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Lee Harvey Oswald...

Rouser2:

Nor the fact that the military found it necessary to change all their codes when he attempted to "defect".
Click to expand...

The military changes its codes even when people do not defect. They change the codes when people change assignments. They change the codes when someone suspects one of them might have been compromised. If someone attempts to defect, damn skippy they'll change the codes.

Private sector does this, too. Security departments will (or should) change the combinations of cipher locks when employees quit or are fired. They do (or should) change them periodically even if no one quits or is fired.

This fact is indicative of nothing.
 
Malachi151 said:
Umm.. in case you guys missed it, before your silly rants, I already came back and said that I was chaning my opinion on Oswald. Thanks for the wasted breath :p
Click to expand...
 
Malachi151:

Originally posted by Malachi151

Umm.. in case you guys missed it, before your silly rants, I already came back and said that I was chaning my opinion on Oswald. Thanks for the wasted breath
Click to expand...

Dammit, Malachi! This obstinate refusal to ever yield in the face of contrary evidence is unforgivable. I for one will not stand for such a mockery of decency and all things patriotic. You simply must learn to admit defeat.

{Any other such displays of reasonableness from quarters undesired will be similarly ignored. You have been warned.}
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Rouser2 said:
>>Laughable. Marina's father was hardly a equivelant of a top Soviet official. ANd of course this assumes a "they" in control which is Rouser's fantasy.

The fantasy is your own. Marina had no father.
Click to expand...

No father? How interesting. Is parthenogenesis now part of your conspiracy plot?

Supported by Marina's own documented statements that she at first thought he was Russian he spoke the language so well.
Click to expand...

Not supported by his language aptitute tests that he took in the Marines where he scored "poor" on all accounts.

Furthermore, her claim is that she thought Oswald was at first from the Baltic states (where they don't speak Russian very well). She did not think he was an American when she first met him. That covers a lot of other bases besides being Russian.

Others in Russia say he did not speak it well at all.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

]Originally posted by kookbreaker [/i]

>>Not supported by his language aptitute tests that he took in the Marines where he scored "poor" on all accounts.

Nor did he do well on his marksmanship tests.

>>Furthermore, her claim is that she thought Oswald was at first from the Baltic states (where they don't speak Russian very well). She did not think he was an American when she first met him. That covers a lot of other bases besides being Russian.

>>Others in Russia say he did not speak it well at all.

You can take it or leave it. Marina said he spoke Russian very well. Fact is, Oswald was an intelligent, multi-talented invidual whose only real fault was blind patriotism.

-- Rouser
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Rouser2 said:
Fact is, Oswald was an intelligent, multi-talented invidual whose only real fault was blind patriotism.
Click to expand...

Well, that and being an assassin and cop killer.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

RonSceptic said:


Well, that and being an assassin and cop killer.
Click to expand...


Oswald didn't shoot anybody.


-- Rouser
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Rouser2 said:
]Originally posted by kookbreaker [/i]

Nor did he do well on his marksmanship tests. .....................

Fact is, Oswald was an intelligent, multi-talented invidual whose only real fault was blind patriotism.

-- Rouser
Click to expand...

Just because a Marinie did not do well on a marksmanship test does not mean he is a poor shot. Marines are expected to be very good and are graded on a much higher level than the average American. My 14yo daughter who is merely proficient with a rifle would find it easy to do what Oswald was accused of doing in Dallas. Why is it that people like to say that no one has duplicated Oswalds feat? If you were to look at what some of these conspiracy kooks mean by duplicate, it means one has to set up a nearly exact duplicate of the conditions as Dealy plaza to prove Oswald could have shot JFK. Why can't they believe experts like Robert Frazier who said it was well with-in the capability of an average shooter to shoot a man in a limo 84 yards from the Depository?

Oswald was also a wife beater. Or maybe Rouser believes that a woman with two black eyes does not need to be told anything because she was already done told twice!

Ranb
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by Ranb [/i]

>>My 14yo daughter who is merely proficient with a rifle would find it easy to do what Oswald was accused of doing in Dallas. Why is it that people like to say that no one has duplicated Oswalds feat? If you were to look at what some of these conspiracy kooks mean by duplicate, it means one has to set up a nearly exact duplicate of the conditions as Dealy plaza to prove Oswald could have shot JFK. Why can't they believe experts like Robert Frazier who said it was well with-in the capability of an average shooter to shoot a man in a limo 84 yards from the Depository?

Others have duplicated Oswad's alleged feat, but never on the first try, with his mis-aligned scope, without a gun rest, at the same angle, at a moving target, through a bunch of tree branches, in the space of 5-8 seconds. Why should it be unreasonable to include all of those conditions in any test? As far as what your 14-year-old daughter could do -- talk is cheap.

-- Rouser
 
Rouser, how do you explain the fact that the shot has scientifically be proven to have come from where Oswald was?

I do not have a link, since I read it in a book, however, I do know the information was posted here before.

The headshot that Kennedy received has to have come from the direction in which Oswald was because of the fact that Kennedy's head moved in that direction. When a bullet from that calibre of weapon stikes the human head, it does not transfer much energy, but when it exits on the other side, the resulting spray acts as a jet, causing the head to move in the direction the shot was fired from. In Kennedy's case (Everyone say it with me now...) Back and to the left.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Rouser2 said:
Originally posted by Ranb [/i]

>>Others have duplicated Oswad's alleged feat, but never on the first try, with his mis-aligned scope, without a gun rest, at the same angle, at a moving target, through a bunch of tree branches, in the space of 5-8 seconds. Why should it be unreasonable to include all of those conditions in any test? As far as what your 14-year-old daughter could do -- talk is cheap.

-- Rouser
Click to expand...

You are right, talk is cheap, you should know that. But I also know the shot Oswald took was easy. Because of the short range he was shooting at, a slightly misaligned scope would not be a problem. The solution has a name; Kentucky windage. Only the first shot was obscured by tree branches, maybe that is why it missed. He had a rest, cardboard boxes found at the scene. Sitting or kneeling behind a box provides a steady rest. When a shot is this easy, why not take an experts opinion on the matter?

Why do the experts have to duplicate Oswald's effort on the first try? Have you ever heard of luck? Or are presidential killers not allowed to be lucky?

Ranb
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Rouser2 said:



Oswald didn't shoot anybody.


-- Rouser
Click to expand...

Did you forget that he murdered Policeman J.D. Tippitts in broad daylight? There were plenty of witnesses to that. He was caught with the handgun that killed him as well. In fact, he tried to use it to shoot the arresting officers.

Oswald had also tried to assassinate a local political figure a few months earlier with his famous rifle (the one he was photographed with by Marina and found on the 6th floor). He missed.

Better go back to square one and read up a bit more.
 
Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy [/i]

>>Rouser, how do you explain the fact that the shot has scientifically be proven to have come from where Oswald was?

Your question is loaded. Besides the fact that it has never been scientifically "proven" where the "shot" came from, in the first place the question assumes there was only one shot to the head. There is evidence of more than one shot and Foresic Patholgist Cyril Wecht, among others, believes there were in fact two simutaneous shots to the head -- one from the back, one from the front.

>>I do not have a link, since I read it in a book, however, I do know the information was posted here before.

Does Gerald Posner ring a bell?

>>The headshot that Kennedy received has to have come from the direction in which Oswald was because of the fact that Kennedy's head moved in that direction. When a bullet from that calibre of weapon stikes the human head, it does not transfer much energy, but when it exits on the other side, the resulting spray acts as a jet, causing the head to move in the direction the shot was fired from. In Kennedy's case (Everyone say it with me now...) Back and to the left.

As to the so-called "jet" effect, that all depends on the type of bullet used, where it impacts, etc., etc., etc. The head snap to the rear is perfectly consistent with a frangible bullet entering the right temple and blowing out the back. Other than that, it is farily difficult to address a study which you cannot cite. But all, ALL of the doctors, nurses and attendants at Parkland remember seeing a large blow-out hole in the back of JFK's head.

-- Rouser
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Ranb said:


You are right, talk is cheap, you should know that. But I also know the shot Oswald took was easy. Because of the short range he was shooting at, a slightly misaligned scope would not be a problem. The solution has a name; Kentucky windage. Only the first shot was obscured by tree branches, maybe that is why it missed. He had a rest, cardboard boxes found at the scene. Sitting or kneeling behind a box provides a steady rest. When a shot is this easy, why not take an experts opinion on the matter?

Why do the experts have to duplicate Oswald's effort on the first try? Have you ever heard of luck? Or are presidential killers not allowed to be lucky?

Ranb
Click to expand...

Because replication is the hallmark of rational thinking and the scientific method. If a thing cannot or has not been replicated, it is not worthy of belief. To that conclusion, I offer the following:

"Ballistics expert Robert Frazier admitted in 1969 during the Clay Shaw trial that no FBI reenactment had duplicated Oswald's alleged performance. Monty Lutz, an expert rifleman and ballistics expert who served on the firearms panel of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, conceded during a 1986 mock Oswald trial that to his knowledge no marksman had duplicated Oswald's supposed shooting feat. Lutz made this admission when he was cross-examined by leading trial attorney Gerry Spence:
Spence: Would it be true that in the history of the whole world, to your knowledge, nobody has ever duplicated what Lee Harvey Oswald is supposed to have done with that supposed rifle from the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository? That's true, isn't it?
Lutz: I don't know of any test that has been done from the School Book Depository in an attempt to duplicate it.
Spence: You don't know of anybody that's even duplicated that anywhere, do you? School Book Depository or elsewhere. You didn't, did you?
Prosecutor: Wait a minute, he didn't answer your first question.
Judge: We've got two questions.
Spence: Let's do this right. You don't know of anybody that has ever duplicated what Lee was supposed to have done, do you?
Lutz: I do not.
Spence: Not even master marksmen. Isn't that true?
Lutz: I do not.
Lutz, an expert shot himself, also testified that he conducted his own rifle test but that he FAILED to duplicate Oswald's supposed shooting feat."


-- Rouser
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Rouser2 said:
His girlfriend told me.
Click to expand...
Well, at least you have a sense of humor. :D

btw, don't listen to my former girlfriends. They lie. All of them. It's a conspiracy, I tells ya. ;)

Anyway, the autopsy photographs are available online (was posted in the other thread). A rather large portion of his skull appears to have been blown out, mostly the top and towards the back. I'm a little hazy on the details, but I believe he was leaning forward as he was hit. Perhaps others can go into more detail if they wish, frankly I have little wish to look at those photos again.

Simultaneous shots? How would they pull that off? And why? Seems like overkill.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lee Harvey Oswald...

Originally posted by DrChinese [/i]


>>Did you forget that he murdered Policeman J.D. Tippitts in broad daylight? There were plenty of witnesses to that. He was caught with the handgun that killed him as well. In fact, he tried to use it to shoot the arresting officers.

The difficulty with that is the fact that the slugs in Tippit's body did not match up with the shells found at the scene. Moroever the shells found at the scene did not have the initials of the officer who found them, though he claimed to have intialed the shells.

As to the witnesses to the Tippit shooting, there was in fact only one who claimed to have seen the actual shooting -- Helen Markham, and she testifed that the man she saw did not look like Oswald, but was short, kind of stocky with a ruddy complexion. The Warren Commission then concluded that she identiifed Oswald as the shooter, but she did not. Not that the Tippit shooting proves anything about the assassination of the President. Another witness, Avilia Clemmons said she saw two men running away from the scene just after the shooting -- one she described as short and stocky. Ms. Clemmons, however, was not called as a witness.

>>Oswald had also tried to assassinate a local political figure a few months earlier with his famous rifle (the one he was photographed with by Marina and found on the 6th floor). He missed.

Another conclusion unsupported by any fact. Somebody took a shot at General Walker's house. There is reason to believe that incident was in fact a ruse. As to the rifle, there is no incontrovertable evidence that Oswald even owned such a rifle.

>>Better go back to square one and read up a bit more.

Oh, I rather think you have pretty well demonstrated your own lack of scholarship on the subject.

-- Rouser
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom