Led Zeppelin backwards messages?

[tube]

Hmmm...

Well, Soundgarden released an EP entitled Satanoscillatemymetallicsonatas.

 

[RhodyDave]

I've lived my life by the messages in all backmasked tracks. Isn't that what we're supposed to do when we hear indecipherable backwards-spoken words?

 

[padego]

A few years back I met Robert Plant at a tiny resort in Mexico, I was getting over my divorce, he was getting ready to go on tour with Allison Krauss, keep in mind this man was god to me in the 70's so it was with a bit of apprehension that I approached him. What I discovered was a funny, intelligent middle aged gentleman with some amazing stories who didn't mind sharing a stroll down the beach. I asked him about the reissues of the Led Zep catalogue on vinyl to which he responded that he was not for it but instead set up a charity from the profits. His last words to me as he was heading back to LA was "Peace and love"
If thats a Satanist count me in...

 

[Vortigern99]

That's not what you said. You said:

That clearly means - you did not hear the words "Satan and man" in that song. "Lyric" means "word". You stated those words were not in the song. You were wrong and instead of admitting it, you wrote the baloney above.

You neglected to read the remainder of my post, in which I once again bolster my reputation for intellectual honesty, and show an interest not in personal pride and hubris, as you erroneously claim, but in the facts as far as I am capable of discerning them:

The song, I must concede, is in part about a woman who is identified as "Satan's daughter"; see also the song on Zeppelin I which posits that "the soul of a woman was created below" ("Dazed and Confused"). Thus, I may have been hasty in my declaration that "there is no 'Satan and man' lyric" in the song "Houses of the Holy". There might very well be (though it sounds to my ear like typically indistinguishable Plant-y moaning and sighing).

If there is such a lyric, however, it does not support a satanic agenda but rather expounds the narrative of the song, which is in part about a woman identified as "Satan's daughter" coming out of the door of the "House(s) of the Holy", presumably in an effort to distract the song's narrator from his courtship of another woman in whose "garden" he would like to wander.

 

[Damien Evans]

A few years back I met Robert Plant at a tiny resort in Mexico, I was getting over my divorce, he was getting ready to go on tour with Allison Krauss, keep in mind this man was god to me in the 70's so it was with a bit of apprehension that I approached him. What I discovered was a funny, intelligent middle aged gentleman with some amazing stories who didn't mind sharing a stroll down the beach. I asked him about the reissues of the Led Zep catalogue on vinyl to which he responded that he was not for it but instead set up a charity from the profits. His last words to me as he was heading back to LA was "Peace and love"
If thats a Satanist count me in...

I'm not jealous.I'm not jealous.I'm not jealous.I'm not jealous.I'm not jealous.I'm not jealous.I'm not jealous.I'm not jealous.I'm not jealous.

 

[ksbluesfan]

Why bother with backward masking? A lot of metal bands have been very open about their Satanism. For example, this song by Deathspell Omega, Sola Fide I, is basically a prayer to Satan.

Here are part of the lyrics from the first verse:

O Satan, I acknowledge you as the Great Destroyer of the Universe.
All that has been created you will corrupt and destroy.
Exercise upon me all your rights.
I spit on Christ’s redemption and to it I shall renounce.

 

[Monza]

The idea that a blues-rock band, which clearly modified their lyrics, sound and image to reflect the "peace-and-love" hippie movement (QV "Led Zeppelin IV"), simultaneously concocted lyrics which would produce satanic messages when sung or played backwards is laughably silly.

It's true that guitarist/band-leader Jimmy Page was "into" witchcraft, the occult and the works of "Satanists" Anton LaVey and Aleister Crowley, and that those studies led him to create "magical" iconography and a marketable "mystic" persona for the band. But he did not write the lyrics of the songs; Robert Plant, the lead singer was the band's lyricist.

Plant in his youth was primarily a bluesman who sang first and foremost about women -- losing them and anguishing over them. As the band progressed musically and lyrically, folk motifs (such as "Gallows Pole") legendary material ("The Immigrant Song") and songs of battle and the misery of war ("No Quarter", "The Battle of Evermore") began to influence Plant's lyrics more and more. Several of the songs on "IV" are about the hippie experience or consist of poetic descriptions of their daily lives as freewheeling musicians. Mystical and spiritual imagery ("Misty Mountain Hop") also began to appear in certain lines and phrases in various songs, but none of it is even vaguely satanic or demonic.

The supposedly "satanic-message" containing song on "IV", "Stairway to Heaven", represents something of an amalgamation of all these motifs; it's about a hippie-ish woman who is seeking something spiritual or mystical, and which may be linked metaphorically to drug usage prevalent in the culture at the time. It's also full of pagan nature imagery ("the forests will echo with laughter") that has nothing whatever to do with satanic worship or ritual.

That Plant and/or Page could have developed over a hundred songs over the course of the band's career,, each with thousands of individual lyrical components that mean something entirely different when played backwards, is the height of stupidity and blind, biased bigotry.

Also, Led Zep broke up in 1980 after drummer John Bonham died. It may be time for Satan-obsessed, anti-good time, rock-hating pastors to move on to a new target.

Very good summary, Vortigern99. But you forgot to mention the Lord of the Rings references.

For a very good summary of backward masking, check out the Wililam Poundstone Big Secrets books. He explodes some of the myths as well as provides references for actual backward masking. Most of these are very benign and came about as a result of the Ozzy and Priest lawsuits.

 

[Shrike]

I dare say that these alarmists were ascribing a level skill and motivation that's far beyond that of most metal rockers musicians.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Vortigern99]

Very good summary, Vortigern99.

Thank you. I wrote it from memory after having read Shadwick's incredibly informative book (which is mainly about their music, but covers a lot of biographical detail as well). I tend to forget details, but the broad strokes of the band's career arc have definitely stayed with me.

I also happen to have more or less memorized Zeppelin's catalogue of songs and records, since deciding they were my favorite band in about 1983.

But you forgot to mention the Lord of the Rings references.

Ah, that's because this angle tends to be trumped up beyond what is actually there. There are really only mentions and side references to Tolkien material in three songs: [1]Ramble On (on II), [2]Battle of Evermore, and [3]Misty Mountain Hop (both on IV).

[1] contains a single verse about "Gollum and the Evil One" (or "Gollum, yeah the evil one"), who "crept up and stole away with her" "in the depths of Mordor".

In [2], there is a single lyric, "the Ringwraiths ride in black".

In [3] the name of the track, spoken once near the end, is the only Tolkien-influenced phrase in the song.

So we have two passing references to names and two cited locations, but no mention of actual plot points, events or characters from LotR performing anything beyond generic, non-LotR behaviors.

Hope I didn't disappoint anyone or burst any bubbles. Zep's sparse LotR references have been trumped up and exaggerated for decades.

 

[tube]

Well, to get all serious here for a moment...

The terms "backward masking" and "forward masking" are actually strictly and carefully defined terms in the study of auditory psychology. They were in use long before the fundamentalist nuts bastardized the terms. Here is just one citation:

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00206097109072544

As a layman, I understand it has to do with listening to tones of various frequencies and volumes in close temporal proximity to the target sound. Sometimes the additional sound will "mask" the target sound in the listener's brain. An esoteric and technical subject to be sure, but obviously it has NOTHING to do with playing rock songs (or any music) backwards.

But I do like the idea that Satan has a "little tool shed" because it reminds me of Beavis and Mr. Anderson.

 

[ktesibios]

You know what's funny?

Through most of history, playing or saying something backwards was supposed to be basically the opposite or negation. Saying the Lord's Prayer backwards would for example make it an unholy invocation, and was supposedly what witches do at Satan's sabbath.

So including a backwards satanic message... you get the idea. If the fundies worrying about it had at least two braincells to rub together, they'd be more worried if anyone backmasked something like "be a nice kid and always go to church"

I have actually done exactly that. On one CD I engineered for a local Philly band we inserted a backwards (actually recorded that way by mounting the 24-track master upside down) message into the ending of a song. The message said:

remember kids, They Eat Their Young say brush your teeth and say your prayers before you go to bed.

Well, to get all serious here for a moment...

The terms "backward masking" and "forward masking" are actually strictly and carefully defined terms in the study of auditory psychology. They were in use long before the fundamentalist nuts bastardized the terms. Here is just one citation:

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00206097109072544

As a layman, I understand it has to do with listening to tones of various frequencies and volumes in close temporal proximity to the target sound. Sometimes the additional sound will "mask" the target sound in the listener's brain. An esoteric and technical subject to be sure, but obviously it has NOTHING to do with playing rock songs (or any music) backwards.

Yup. In psychoacoustics "masking" refers to the ability of a sound to block a listener's perception of another sound.

There's also a phenomenon called "auditory backwards inhibition". The basic idea is that if you are speaking and hear your own voice fed back to you with a suitable delay (anything in the range of 100-250 mS seems to work) you will be unable to continue speaking.

There's some controversy about whether ABI is a real effect, but my own experience in making announcements from the mix position at a live show, which involved hearing my own voice after a delay of about 100 mS due to my distance from the PA speakers, was that I had to block my ears to be able to talk.

 

[Steelmage]

No backwards stuff.On the fade out of Strawberry Fields Forever John Lennon's slowed-down voice apparently says "I buried Paul." What Lennon actually said was "Cranberry sauce." Ozzie Osbourne did put a backwards message on one of his albums which said "Your mother sells whelks in Hull.""

Kind of reminds me of the Simpsons "I married Marge". If you listen to "All you need is love" toward the end of the song, Lennon clearly says "Yes he's dead".

 

[Elizabeth I]

My all-time personal favorite experience of this kind of thing was when the wife of a Baptist ministry student told me in all earnestness that if you played Jimi Hendrix records backwards they told you to use drugs.

No, that's if you play them forwards!

So, I'm guessing she never listened to Jimi played forwards.

That's why it's my all-time personal favorite.

(Funny, back in the days of vinyl, if we were hanging around the house with enough free time and the inclination to play Hendrix backwards, we were usually already stoned.)

Never could get into pot (it just put me to sleep) and I was too chicken to try anything harder, but I sure did like me some Jimi Hendrix music.

 

[mactonite]

So, there is not some demon song writing school that teaches them how to make a backwards song in hopes that preachers will one day find it and expose them?

 

[Hellbound]

You know, I like to use their own beliefs against them. Most of this comes from the Christian side, usually fundie or leaning that direction.

They come up with these obvious, stupid plots to "trick" our young into Satan worship and sin (or whatever).

Assuming the Xian believe is true, what is Satan, a petulant 5 year old? This is the big bad guy, the thorn in God's side, and that's the best he can come up with? Really?

Think about this a minute. Which would be a bigger feather in Satan's cap: turning a young, emotional unstable, hormonally unbalanced teenager to sin (something most teens have NO trouble finding on their own) which he's not likely to stick to (we change alot in our teens and early 20s)...or placing sin into the soul of a devout Xian, while the Xian doesn't even realize it? And having that Xian tarnish the name of God's followers?

What better way than to get the Xian souls than convincing them you're backwards masking songs, to generate hate, intolerence, and prejudice? And anyone who tries to explain reality is obviously another tool of the evil one...

You can sometimes follow that logic long enough to make several of them start twitching. It's kinda fun

 

[Egg]

There is, of course, a difference between a reversed recording, and a recording that supposedly sounds like something else when played in reverse. When a reversed clip is inserted into a song (such as the stuff the Beatles and Hendrix did), the effect is usually pretty obvious. To my ear, those things stick out like a sore thumb and just seem more like a novelty (that quickly became very trite) than any kind of "hidden" or "subliminal" message.

However, what those Christian nutjobs were actually trying to claim was that rock artists were deliberately and painstakingly constructing sounds and word phrasings that when played backwards, actually yielded perfectly discernible English-language statements (on the order of "Number 9" becoming "Turn me on, dead man" which of course was accidental). So you have to think of the message you want to convey, then try to come up with the phrases that, when reversed phonetically, result in your intended message (in other words--to use Caution's example--knowing ahead of time that if you wanted your listeners to hear the phrase "I gobble swordfish" that would have to sing the word "Czechoslovakia"). That would be a serious challenge for even the most gifted linguist and recording engineer, and would take months of tedious work. I dare say that these alarmists were ascribing a level skill and motivation that's far beyond that of most metal rockers.

Quite right, recording parts of the song or spoken words in reverse is a separate issue from the lyrics giving different messages backwards and forwards. I believe the suspicion is often a more supernatural cause than the artists intentionally reworking their lyrics to make them say something else when played backwards.

I was giving a seminar on this subject some years ago and read some of the (mostly fundy) books on the subject. I got hold of as many of the tracks that were mentioned I could and used my 4-track to hear them backwards to see if I could hear any of the claimed messages. I was pretty much coming to the conclusion that the authors were serious clutching at straws and could barely make out any of the suggested words, even knowing what I was "supposed" to be hearing. There was one exception I found. Slowing down and reversing part of one of Led Zep's tracks (not one of the obvious ones) gave lyrics people could hear without being told what to listen for. I wouldn't be surprised if these obsessives had listened repeatedly to most of Led Zep's catalogue in reverse, and many other tracks, so most likely this one is just a coincidence, but still it had a pretty good spook factor.

Much easier to do these days with digital, so if anyone's interested, send me a PM and I'll give you a link to the reversed mp3 (it's really short) and maybe you can PM me with what you think the lyrics are (rather than posting them up so people know what to listen for). I'd be interested to know how many people hear the same thing. I'll report back later on the thread should there be anything to report.

 

[Emet]

I might be wrong, but all this hidden message stuff ,I think,got started with the whole "Paul is Dead" hoax, where if you played Certain Beatles songs backwards you got messages saying Paul was killed.

Ahh, I remember it well, and have a cassette somewhere that I recorded from a radio station playing Revolution 9^WP backwards.

 

[CORed]

Well, to get all serious here for a moment...

The terms "backward masking" and "forward masking" are actually strictly and carefully defined terms in the study of auditory psychology. They were in use long before the fundamentalist nuts bastardized the terms. Here is just one citation:

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00206097109072544

As a layman, I understand it has to do with listening to tones of various frequencies and volumes in close temporal proximity to the target sound. Sometimes the additional sound will "mask" the target sound in the listener's brain. An esoteric and technical subject to be sure, but obviously it has NOTHING to do with playing rock songs (or any music) backwards.

But I do like the idea that Satan has a "little tool shed" because it reminds me of Beavis and Mr. Anderson.

I saw a youtube video a few months ago that did a pretty good job of debunking the whole "Stairway to Heaven" backward masking thing. The guy who made the video recorded the passage of "Stairway" that supposedly contained the message, played it backwards, and showed that the alleged Satanic message could be heard in his recording. The other thing that struck me was that the alleged message was pretty much word salad anyway, It started with "My sweet Satan" and I remember something in there like "he will give you six, six, six, and the rest was even more incoherent. If it hadn't been played with text of the supposed words over it, I'm not sure I would have identified any of it as anything but noise. I think it's just audio paradolia. Some idiot played it backwards, and picked out stuff that they thought sounded satanic.

 

[leon_heller]

Some years ago I wrote some software for a DSP system that reversed the input samples and output them; it was very easy, I just had to read them from a circular buffer in reverse order. I used to feed the output from a radio into it. I found that I could still detect emotional content from the speech.

Paul Channon, a British Conservative politician in the Thatcher government, had the unusual ability of being able to speak backwards. I saw him do it on TV once, and was very impressed. I don't think he was notable for much else, apart from one of his daughters dying from a drug overdose.

 

[CORed]

The presumption of those who were hysterical over such things is twofold:
1. That our minds were somehow capable of decoding such backwards-masked recordings (without actually playing the thing backwards)
2. That such messages would be capable of somehow influencing behavior.

Neither is true.

It's part of the whole "subliminal message" woo. The "theory" is that things like backward sounds, images or text flashed for a small fraction of a second, or "hidden" images or text in pictures can be decoded by the subconscious mind but not the conscious mind, and therefore can cause irresistible compulsions. So, these evil rock and/or roll bands are trying to corrupt the youth of America by embedding Satanic messages in their music. It's basically a very large load of crap.