LDS

[dafydd]

We all probably know how the word "******" is used today among younger blacks, and other races as well. But, I also know that the term ******, or niggardly is someone who is stingy or miserly.

I don't suppose that's what the mormons mean, though.

EDIT: Hmm, interesting. I guess the JREF finds the N-word offensive.

Niggardly comes from an old word, nig, meaning mean or stingy. Nothing to do with the n word.

 

[RandFan]

Mormons specifically meant black people when they referred to Negros. There were several quotations from different prophets that made it clear beyond all reasonable doubt that from Brigham Young's leadership until the 1970s, black men could not hold the priesthood, and that the "skin of blackness" was a curse from god. But Janadele refused to admit it, no matter how much evidence was posted.

Behold the power of religious denial.

Let's remind everyone with a small sampling.

"Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness?

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages

For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of blackness

...wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto [the Nephites] the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

“For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the bareness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people..."

 

[deaman]

Mormons specifically meant black people when they referred to Negros. There were several quotations from different prophets that made it clear beyond all reasonable doubt that from Brigham Young's leadership until the 1970s, black men could not hold the priesthood, and that the "skin of blackness" was a curse from god. But Janadele refused to admit it, no matter how much evidence was posted.

Behold the power of religious denial.

As I pointed out to her, this refusal to admit that she has to believe god judges people by skin color, becuase it's church doctrine, is so repugnant to her own conscience, that it is embarrasing for her to admit so publicly.

To me, that is a sure sign that her own feelings of justice and fairness, equality, love and tolerance are being double crossed or sublimated, by the church's racist doctrine.

That makes me feel sad for her. Maybe she will weigh in here, with her own feelings and thoughts, instead of pasting some scripture.

I guess there is always hope. It does seem, however, that she has given up the ghost!

 

[John Jones]

There are threads about different "religions" here in this very section. Just as atheists are a "religion" of their own so is the anti-Mormon movement, and their literature and propaganda are not appropriate to this thread in the same way as discussing Communism would not be.

Pick what you think is an inappropriate post and report it.

 

[jsfisher]

Pick what you think is an inappropriate post and report it.

I suspect she is highly experienced in this particular technique. Respond to legitimate questions, on the other hand, no so much.

 

[Janadele]

Janadele - Is polygamy an eternal law? Then why did your church change it?

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/topic/polygamy
"In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle... Subsequently, in 1890, President Wilford Woodruff, fourth president of the Church, received what Latter-day Saints believe to be a revelation in which God withdrew the command to practice plural marriage."

 

[Olowkow]

The Manifesto suggests more of a political move than any revelation from on high, I would think.

 

[Slowvehicle]

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/topic/polygamy
"In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle... Subsequently, in 1890, President Wilford Woodruff, fourth president of the Church, received what Latter-day Saints believe to be a revelation in which God withdrew the command to practice plural marriage."

Janadele:

Would you be so kind as to tell me which of the anachronisms claimed in the BoM have been demonstrated, by practical, empirical evidence, attested to by neutral sources, to have existed in the pre-Colombian Americas?

 

[Janadele]

... They are sent to the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Ut

There is also a Missionary Training Centre in Mexico and in New Zealand.

 

[Empress]

There is also a Missionary Training Centre in Mexico and in New Zealand.

Yes, Cat Tale was kind enough to correct me, which I appreciated.

Perhaps you could turn your attention to questions that others cannot/have not answered, such as what constitutes a Negro, or perhaps explaining those deer/horses in pre-Columbian America. I, for one, have given up on the BoA, but those ride-able deer intrigue me.

 

[RandFan]

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/topic/polygamy
"In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle... Subsequently, in 1890, President Wilford Woodruff, fourth president of the Church, received what Latter-day Saints believe to be a revelation in which God withdrew the command to practice plural marriage."

Is there any better excuse than "god told me to"? Must have been tough on poor Joseph having sex with all those women.

 

[deaman]

Janadele -

Glad to see you're back.

So, can you confirm, or not, whether you personally feel that people of darker skin color are spiritually lesser.

 

[Craig4]

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/topic/polygamy
"In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle... Subsequently, in 1890, President Wilford Woodruff, fourth president of the Church, received what Latter-day Saints believe to be a revelation in which God withdrew the command to practice plural marriage."

What a creep. It's no wonder the bastard got shot. Why do you follow anything this sick little pervert said?

 

[Janadele]

I'm sorry I thought that I had made that clear before. In the MTC and the mission field we were told to meet with members and ask them questions like "do you know of anyone who has lost a loved one recently"?

My three sons and their and my acquaintances, who have served missions more recently, affirm that they were never told to ask such questions.

 

[Akuma Tennou]

I'm sorry I thought that I had made that clear before. In the MTC and the mission field we were told to meet with members and ask them questions like "do you know of anyone who has lost a loved one recently"?

Sorry I missed or misunderstood your post. Thanks for your answer.

It's a reference to an earlier drift in the thread where Janadele talked about Negros not being able to hold the priesthood in the past, but when asked specifically could not or refused to, explain what "Negro" meant. She claimed it's not skin color, or African heritage. Eventually it seemed to come down to the church leaders could tell 'em when they see 'em.

See? Here I thought they should have shaken their hand.

My three sons and their and my acquaintances, who have served missions more recently, affirm that they were never told to ask such questions.

We don't care what they affirm. Do you affirm you never heard one of your fellows ask such a question?

 

[Janadele]

In mormonism there is such a thing as Temple Marriage, It is a marriage "for all time and eternity", as opposed to "until death do us part".

Four of my sons are married for time and eternity, having married in the Sydney and Brisbane Australia Temples.

 

[Cat Tale]

My three sons and their and my acquaintances, who have served missions more recently, affirm that they were never told to ask such questions.

Yeah, you already said that in post 4714

Randfan was saying that it's something he was taught at the MTC over 25 years ago. I was taught the same thing a year or two later. I also had a number of missionaries ask me the question before, and after my mission. So for a while anyway, it was common practice to ask this question.

I don't know if the MTC has done away with teaching it, perhaps the retention rate was low? dunno for sure, but there is no doubt that at one time it was done.

Randfan's example was a perfect case of deja vu, as I recalled asking that in the same circumstances.

 

[RandFan]

My three sons and their and my acquaintances, who have served missions more recently, affirm that they were never told to ask such questions.

Well I affirm that I was.

 

[Janadele]

... Do you affirm you never heard one of your fellows ask such a question?

I certainly do.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Four of my sons are married for time and eternity, having married in the Sydney and Brisbane Australia Temples.

Do you suppose one or another of your sons might be able to point me toward a list of the anachronisms claimed by the BoM, which have been demonstrated by practical, empirical evidence, attested to by neutral sources, to have existed in the pre-Colombian Americas?