AnotherSillyAlias
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If you have an urge to eat KK feel free. I, however, will pass thank you.
kurious_kathy explain this.
- Thread starter TobiasTheViking
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If you have an urge to eat KK feel free. I, however, will pass thank you.
AnotherSillyAlias
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kurious_kathy
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I have actually had to ask more details about what's ok to forward and what is not. I have to apologize for not specifying where those came from. I myself get theses e-mails forwarded from my friends at refugee ministries and because they weren't signed each time by Jon Courson I was not sure.
Now I know to specify when I copy something to make sure I state something like...I'm not sure where this came from but I got it in an e-mail today. Even if it is in partiality. Ok!
Anyway I won't do it again. I learn from my mistakes sometimes just like everyone else. So please forgive me.
Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
The lessons you choose to learn from seem to be rather selective.
David Swidler
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Hey, if you can cherry pick verses, you can cherry pick life lessons.
Z
Variable Constant
That's the advantage of free will, you know.
I have a Hebrew version of the Five Books of the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) with commentary. Please provide a reference and I'll be happy to look it up for you.
Yawn...
-Bri
geetarmoore
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David Swidler
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Duteronomy.... That seems to be rape capital of the bible....
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Sounds like slavery/rape to me....
What is your 'spin'?
I understand your confusion. But while rape isn't treated by Israelite law as a capital crime, it's not permitted, either. Let's look at the examples cited:
Deuteronomy 20:10-14 doesn't mention rape at all. It refers to physical captivity and enslavement of the noncombatant (i.e. women and children) populace as a consequence of resistance. As a matter of fact the only Israelites permitted under Jewish law to cohabit with non-Israelite maidservants are Hebrew servants, and then only if they (the male servants) are already married.
Deuteronomy 21:10-14 specifically mentions capturing the woman, not raping her. The Talmudic authorities are split as to whether the warrior is permitted to cohabit with her immediately, or whether that must wait until after the thirty days, by which time he can only follow through if he is still attracted to her. In any case the Bible specifically says "as a wife," which entails financial responsibilities and other long-term consequences, which would undoubtedly be among the considerations the guy has to ponder during that interim period (would you want a wife who objected to you?) Most commentators understand the section as a recognition that bloodlust exists and can overcome even good people. It's in the context of the midst of (or immediately following) battle. As an aside, the order of the sections in that part of Deuteronomy is taken by a number of commentators as a warning of the pitfalls inherent in taking such a woman. The section of the captive woman is followed by one describing the bitterness and rivalry that results from having two wives, and then the section describing a rebellious son.
Deuteronomy 22:23-24 refers to adultery, not rape specifically. The fact that the woman didn't resist ("she did not cry out in the town") means she was willing, so it wasn't rape. The verses there you didn't cite actually compare rape to murder: "For when a man rises up against his fellow and kills him, so is this case. Since he found her in the field, the betrothed girl screamed and no one saved her." Also keep in mind that the death penalty is subject to two witnesses and a specific warning of the severe punishment, followed by a verbal dismissal of the warning just prior to the act. It should be noted that in this case the death penalty is applied not because of the rape per se, but because the victim was married, and the rape therefore was adulterous. That's in keeping with the next citation.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 specifically commands a 50 silver shekel (I think that was something like half a year's wages) punishment for rape; what's the difficulty? The fact that he must also keep her as a wife is subject to her consent, as in the case only a few verses earlier in the case of the "she's not a virgin" slander. (To forestall jumping to conclusions about that passage, if the accusation is true she's only put to death with the requisite witnesses and warning; the passage primarily addresses the slander aspect). It's an option that the Bible offers to her, since she may now find it difficult to find a husband.
Actually, at the mention of rape and the Bible I thought of Genesis, not Deuteronomy: the Dina incident, when Jacob's sons Simon and Levi wiped out the town of Sh'chem for the rape and imprisonment of their sister.
I wouldn't call any of the above condoning rape.
veggie doll
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Um, back on the topic of animals that are acceptable to eat... kurious kathy, what are your views on vegetarian/vegan christians? I have known several. Are they sinners for taking the 'thou shalt not kill' rule too literally?
And in regards to the animals that aren't suitable for human consumption- what is the point of their existance? If God made the Earth for humans, why would he bother with inventing a million species that we have no real use for?
And in regards to the animals that aren't suitable for human consumption- what is the point of their existance? If God made the Earth for humans, why would he bother with inventing a million species that we have no real use for?
Bri
Or how about Numbers 31. Moses leads an army against the Midianites. The Israelite army wins and they take all the unspoiled young women for themselves. Were all those women willing partners after they had just watched their families being slaughtered?
Ossai
Let’s see, you waffled through the entire thread, you were caught contradicting yourself on numerous occasions, you were caught lying by at least two other people. You are very unreliable.
Let’s start with Genesis 19. Lot and his family were the only ones deemed worth saving, yet he was offering an angry mob his virginal daughters to do with as they wished if the mob would leave his guests alone. Does the bible value women yet?
Or how about Numbers 31. Moses leads an army against the Midianites. The Israelite army wins and they take all the unspoiled young women for themselves. Were all those women willing partners after they had just watched their families being slaughtered?
Ossai
David Swidler
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Did I miss something, Ossai? Is every person mentioned in the Bible supposed to have sterling character? Lot was no saint. He chose to live in Sodom, for cryin' out loud.
ASA, kmortis is right. Case in point:
The thread in question concerned some folks who claimed that they could prove that God doesn't exist (involving discussions on compatibility of free will and omniscience). Discussions of free will generally wind up the same way. After being reminded again and again that the burden of proof was on them, the folks who insisted that they could prove that the existance of God is impossible shortly became frustrated and personal attacks ensued. Can you guess which side of the discussion Ossai and the "two other people" were on?
-Bri
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I want to acknowledge your post with a response, but since David Swindler did a better job of answering your post than I could have, I'll leave it at that (thanks David Swindler).
BTW, I wouldn't necessarily expect you to have read through the entire thread since it's gotten fairly lengthy, but the discussion of whether or not the Bible condones rape was discussed earlier in this very thread, starting here.
-Bri
kmortis
Biomechanoid, Director of IDIOCY (Region 13)
