Kent Hovind gets 10 years

Oops, when I said "3) collect excess energy produced" I should have said, "3)observe perpetual motion." I seem to have confused free energy and PM. I clearly know little about either!

Then again I haven't taught SCIENCE for fifteen years...
 
Liken said:
Ok, on to the legal round:

Question Two:
Patriot Bible University is legally authorized to issue degrees in the following disciplines:

A) religious fields of study
B) education
C) A and B
D) A and and B can be thought of as the same as the terms can be used interchangeably; i.e. "a pastor with a religious degree who 'educates' people about religious matters can be thought of as a teacher, therefore the degree he earns in Biblical studies can also be considered a 'degree in education' upon completion"

Hovind answers D (or thereabouts). I answer A.

Gene answers...
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Liken,

It is amusing that you have an opinion of a law you don't even cite. The actual Colorado Revised Statues have this opinion....

  • Notwithstanding the provisions of section 7-50-105, C.R.S., or any other law to the contrary, no person, partnership, corporation, company, society, or association doing business in the state of Colorado shall award, bestow, confer, give, grant, convey, or sell to any other person a degree or honorary degree upon which is inscribed, in any language, the word "associate", "bachelor", "baccalaureate", "master", or "doctor", or any abbreviation thereof, or offer courses of instruction or credits purporting to lead to any such degree, except a state college or university, a private college or university, a private occupational school, or a seminary or bible college
...on the matter. So to answer your multiple choice question concerning how I'd answer; I agree with the Colorado Revised Statues on legal matters within its jurisdiction. It could be more complicated than that I suppose.

I noticed your guess was A. You'd better get a hold of your friends in the Colorado legislature and get them to correct their mistaken understanding of how things are.

Gene
 
AgingYoung said:
Liken,

It is amusing that you have an opinion of a law you don't even cite. The actual Colorado Revised Statues have this opinion....

  • Notwithstanding the provisions of section 7-50-105, C.R.S., or any other law to the contrary, no person, partnership, corporation, company, society, or association doing business in the state of Colorado shall award, bestow, confer, give, grant, convey, or sell to any other person a degree or honorary degree upon which is inscribed, in any language, the word "associate", "bachelor", "baccalaureate", "master", or "doctor", or any abbreviation thereof, or offer courses of instruction or credits purporting to lead to any such degree, except a state college or university, a private college or university, a private occupational school, or a seminary or bible college
...on the matter. So to answer your multiple choice question concerning how I'd answer; I agree with the Colorado Revised Statues on legal matters within its jurisdiction. It could be more complicated than that I suppose.

I noticed your guess was A. You'd better get a hold of your friends in the Colorado legislature and get them to correct their mistaken understanding of how things are.

Gene
Click to expand...

According to Patriot Bible University:

Patriot Bible University is authorized by the State of Colorado Commission for Higher Education to grant religious degrees at the Associate, Bachelors, Masters and Doctoral levels.
Click to expand...

http://www.patriotuniversity.org/index.php?mod=Articles&menuid=67

Gene, you remind me of Glen Stoll in this thread; trying to pretend you know the law when your ignorance shines through.
 
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AgingYoung said:
[*]Generally speaking skeptics think their opinion of the law has an authority that is above the law.
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If that were true, you would see skeptics not paying their taxes and lying about their academic qualifications in greater numbers than non skeptics. But you don't, do you? To generalize and claim that skeptics generally "think their opinion...is above the law" is a either a &#@%ing lie or just ignorant.

Or can you provide real evidence that supports the claim? You're more likely to discover a perpetual motion machine.

You still don't see the obvious: in this case it is HOVIND'S contention that HIS authority is above the law that got HIM thrown in jail--NOT OURS. By refusing to acknowledge that YOU are the hypocrite.

You really resemble Hovind in a lot of ways, Gene.
 
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Wait, your answer is NOT A? Patriot ONLY has the authority to grant religious degrees, and openly admits as much on their website. See QuestioningGeller's source.

Care to change your answer?
 
Just a thought here: I wonder if AgingYoung IS Kent Hovind himself... Or one of his immediate family, or entourage... Or perhaps he's Stoll...!
 
Liken said:
Care to change your answer?
Click to expand...

No, not right away. For now I'll stick with that previous agreement with Colorado Statue...


  • Notwithstanding the provisions of section 7-50-105, C.R.S., or any other law to the contrary, no person, partnership, corporation, company, society, or association doing business in the state of Colorado shall award, bestow, confer, give, grant, convey, or sell to any other person a degree or honorary degree upon which is inscribed, in any language, the word "associate", "bachelor", "baccalaureate", "master", or "doctor", or any abbreviation thereof, or offer courses of instruction or credits purporting to lead to any such degree, except a state college or university, a private college or university, a private occupational school, or a seminary or bible college
.

I took out the language from the code that might have confused you; only highlighting the language pertinent to Patriot's legal right. It is good to see that you have some basis for your legal opinions besides a gut feeling or something deep within you possibly residing in your intestinal track. Would you care to thrust your fist in again and get a real legal opinion? I could be persuaded yet I don't see the point you’re driving at since you haven't mentioned it. Where are you going?

Gene
 
Liken,

If you'd like to make a point, I'll listen. You should clearly state it. If you decide to go in for another opinion please don't blacken your eye in the process.

Gene
 
I'd like to bring to everyone's attention:
  • adding a bullet point is authoritative
  • it instantly makes your point for you
  • it also makes anything you say true
  • especially if you're talking about the law
  • even if you don't know anything about the law
  • don't worry about organizing what you're saying
  • or pretending to write something coherent
  • the bullet points do all that hard work for you
  • Also, if you highlight a section of text to quote mine it, this does not imply its true meaning is restricted to the section you have chosen to emphasize
 
Patriot can only issue RELIGIOUS degrees. Therefore there's no conceivable way Hovind's degree represents ANY achievement in the field of EDUCATION. His PhD is a piece of garbage from a garbage institution and you know it.

Anyways, keep feeling good that you've proven your point that Hovind may indeed have a legal right to misrepresent himself academically in the State of Florida as long as his diploma proper carries a religious disclaimer--this would be a real victory for if that was the main reason people here have a problem with Hovind in the first place. As has been reiterated to you, though, it's not.

Finally, it's because of people like you that phony degrees are such big business these days; there's always some sucker out there willing to give jobs, money, and attention to frauds because they naively assume that said fraud is being honest about having achieved the title preceding his or her name. Having insisted that Hovind's degree is valid, and by going out of your way to address him as Dr. Hovind, you are merely playing your part in the the cycle of deception.

Congratulations on defending ignorance and lies.
 
AgingYoung said:
Liken,

If you'd like to make a point, I'll listen. You should clearly state it. If you decide to go in for another opinion please don't blacken your eye in the process.

Gene
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These little insult posts are really classy. I can see you in a room surrounded by a bunch of your lawyer buddies working together to come up with an additional little "burn" after making your post actual. Do they hoot and holler? Have you guys ordered the pizza yet?

I'd get all upset about what could be construed as a physical threat if it didn't bring me so much pleasure being reassured that you have the maturity level of a high school student. Carry on!
 
Liken,

What might appear to be a defense of Hovind isn't. Further what might appear to be a defense of a particular law isn't. I've already said I doubt Hovind's degree is of much value. Also, like most anyone alive, I don't agree with all laws.

For the sake of reason I defend Hovind, his degree and consequently the law that confers legitimacy to it. Reason demands that if you accept some legal authority you can't with a clear conscience dismiss others. I've never argued that all law is right or just. Right or wrong it is the law. If anyone should be subject to the authority of law everyone should be. The authority or rule of law is precisely what makes Hovind's degree legitimate. If you would disagree with that law you should work to change it. If you simply want to ignore it by reinterpreting it or acting as if it doesn't exist you aren't being intellectually honest.

It perhaps is a rude awakening but everyone falls short of perfection. When someone points out the hypocrisy of someone else they do that ignoring their own hypocrisies. Trying to force someone to be perfect while one knows they aren't is the height of hypocrisy. In the ideological struggles of today that is a common practice. That doesn't escape my notice.

I have no hard feelings.

Gene
 
Hey everyone! I think I've discovered why Gene thinks he's such a hot-shot lawyer here, while our in-house legal team of decades of experience are apparently snookered by his incredible* logic!

Gene got HIS degree from a Colorado degree-mill too!

:D


*Quite literally, in-credible.
 
wahrheit said:
How come such a fantasy doctorate is (technically) legal? I assume the laws are more liberal in that regard in the U.S., because using such a homemade degree for example in Germany is more than a misdemeanour, it's a felony, a criminal offence resulting in a hefty fine and/or up to one year in prison.
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Because churches are very good at getting exceptions to the normal rules, at least in the US.
 
Questioninggeller said:
Oh the irony. Hovind, a man who claims to be an expert on science, took his tax advice from a man, Glenn Stoll, who claims to be a law expert.

Seems like justice that Hovind would follow the advice of a man parading around with a false sense of intellectual authority then wind up in prison.
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It would be very funny then if he took medical advice from Trudeau.
 
Only in lawyer land can an academic degree be both "legitimate" and "of [little] value" at the same time. Thanks for clearing that up, Gene. Your job probably inspires countless such examples of cognitive dissonance and for that I pity you. Really, I'm sure it's not easy to be a lawyer but it is a noble profession and I respect it.

It's clear from your last post, however, that you only understand the world in terms of strict legalities and simple concepts of good and evil. (Take your preceding point about "perfection", for example: nobody's asking for perfection, only honesty. This argument sounds like it came straight out of the religious fundamentalist's play book to me).

It's very nice of you to say that you have no hard feelings towards me. On the other hand to even suggest that you have the option of forgiving me implies that I have wronged you a way that outweighs the insults, sarcasm and evasion that you have thrown my way...this simply isn't the case.

On the other hand I do believe in letting bygones be bygones...Goodbye and good luck. [exits clumsily:blush:]
 
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From what I've read I doubt Gene is familiar with law let alone a lawyer. The obvious contradictions, vagueness, and flatout incorrectness has shown that he isn't able to write a coherent argument much less argue law.

And yes, Gene, you are defending his "degree." It's really silly that you can't admit the diploma mill can only offer "religious degrees" when Patriot says as much on its webpage.

Also I have never met a lawyer who has to call people names to prove their case.

AgingYoung said:
The authority or rule of law is precisely what makes Hovind's degree legitimate.
Click to expand...

You just don't get it. In what sense it is legitimate? To other schools? To businesses? To convicted tax cheats?

According to Patriot Bible University:

Corporations are not required to recognize degrees from Patriot University.
Click to expand...

and

If you hope to apply your Bible degree towards a secular degree at some time later on, the PBU courses and degrees are not likely to be fully applicable.
Click to expand...

I'd like Patriot to name one secular school that accepts its units.

http://www.patriotuniversity.org/index.php?mod=Articles&menuid=67

Now Gene, stop enlightening us with your vast knowledge of law and get back to work on a perp. motion mach.! The world now has your understanding of law now we must have your understanding of physics!
 
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