Jordan Peterson's all-meat diet

[xterra]

An almost-all-meat diet is nothing new:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson#Low-carbohydrate_diet_of_meat_and_fish

 

[p0lka]

Just because you need exogenous insulin does not mean you are T1.

I agree,

You are probably a T2 that needs more insulin due to insulin resistance.

Probably type2 yes, after all most diabetics are type 2, but I won in that respect and got the type1 reward, I even have other autoimmune stuff to prove it

And the internal insulin resistance causes hyper-insulinemia, gobs of insulin circulating. And those gobs of insulin act like growth hormone, causing oodles of soft tissue problems. Tendinitis, trigger fingers, carpal tunnel, osteoarthritis too.

If you are T2, low carb and enough exercise and you won't need no more insulin. At all.

I'm still concerned about my clicky feet.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I'm still concerned about my clicky feet.

I have clicky joints and I'm on a low carb diet trying to be on a low carb diet. I don't think they are related. I think one is about me being an out of shape old man and the other is about my joints clicking.

But I am not really a doctor. I would talk to a real doctor if the clicky is bugging you.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

What disease is it? I remember him saying that both he and his daughter have an "autoimmune disease" but which one is it?

I have (had?) an autoimmune disease - sarcoidosis. Does he and his daughter have that? Or maybe they both have AIDS? They are not specific, so how is anyone to judge whether this diet is useful for them as well?

Just FYI. AIDS isn't an autoimmune disorder. Autoimmune diseases are where your own immune system attacks otherwise healthy parts of your body. In AIDS you immune system stops defending you.

 

[casebro]

I agree,

Probably type2 yes, after all most diabetics are type 2, but I won in that respect and got the type1 reward, I even have other autoimmune stuff to prove it

I'm still concerned about my clicky feet.

Auto immune stuff eats joints too.

And while Insulin Resistance goes hand in hand with T2, it's a common genetic problem. No reason you can't have both T1 and the genes for IR.

 

[Marcus]

Auto immune stuff eats joints too.

And while Insulin Resistance goes hand in hand with T2, it's a common genetic problem. No reason you can't have both T1 and the genes for IR.

It's a fairly recent development(recent decades) that it has been realized that Type 1's can also develop insulin resistance to their exogenous insulin. It's now pretty common for Type 1's to Take metformin.


Low carb is proving very valuable for T1's, not just for reducing insulin intake but for reducing spikes (increasing time spent in range). Even now in the age of pumps and CGM's , it's not always easy to maintain a good A1c while also avoiding hypos.

 

[casebro]

It's a fairly recent development(recent decades) that it has been realized that Type 1's can also develop insulin resistance to their exogenous insulin. ......

Except for the "exogenous" part. Modern insulins are recombinant HUMAN insulin. The resistance is also ti their endogenous insulin (if they have any).

And it is this genetic insulin resistance (IRS-1 gene) that raises insulin levels so high it acts like a growth hormone. Grows thicker artery walls, causing arteriosclerosis. And poor peripheral circulation. And also tendon sheaths- carpal tunnel and trigger fingers. Bad discs too. And guess how Statins really work? They lower insulin resistance.

The bad IRS-1 gene is in 40% of Caucasians, 50% of Africans. Death rate from heart attacks- 40% for Caucasians, 50% for Africans. Coincidence?

 

[casebro]

It's a fairly recent development(recent decades) that it has been realized that Type 1's can also develop insulin resistance to their exogenous insulin. It's now pretty common for Type 1's to Take metformin.


Low carb is proving very valuable for T1's, not just for reducing insulin intake but for reducing spikes (increasing time spent in range). Even now in the age of pumps and CGM's , it's not always easy to maintain a good A1c while also avoiding hypos.

Hmm, does metformin lower resistance directly, or does it lower sugars and the body lowers insulin levels? Now, wait... T1s have no ability to lower insulin since they don't make any to begin with.

I've tried Metformin a couple times. For me it was 'Weight loss via Diarrhea'. I eagerly await a "lowers insulin resistance" pill/.

 

[Marcus]

Hmm, does metformin lower resistance directly, or does it lower sugars and the body lowers insulin levels? Now, wait... T1s have no ability to lower insulin since they don't make any to begin with.

I've tried Metformin a couple times. For me it was 'Weight loss via Diarrhea'. I eagerly await a "lowers insulin resistance" pill/.

Supposedly Metformin works by lowering insulin resistance,( which is of course the big issue for T2's), and also by discouraging your liver from giving you those glucose boluses, most often expressed as "dawn phenomenon". Sometime T1's develop resistance to the insulin they are taking though, in these cases they may also take Met. Most T1's don't have any insulin resistance though, so don't take Met.


I'm T2 myself and love the Met. If you ever get the urge to try it again keep in mind that those side effects go away after a few months for a majority of people.

 

[Ziggurat]

I eagerly await a "lowers insulin resistance" pill/.

It's not a pill, exactly...

 

[casebro]

Supposedly Metformin works by lowering insulin resistance,( which is of course the big issue for T2's), and also by discouraging your liver from giving you those glucose boluses, most often expressed as "dawn phenomenon". Sometime T1's develop resistance to the insulin they are taking though, in these cases they may also take Met. Most T1's don't have any insulin resistance though, so don't take Met.


I'm T2 myself and love the Met. If you ever get the urge to try it again keep in mind that those side effects go away after a few months for a majority of people.

The REAL problem is not that "lowering insulin resistance,( which is of course the big issue for T2's),". The real deal is that Insulin Resistance is the culprit for 40% of people, even if it is not bad enough to cause diabetes. Lowering IR enough that your diabetes is solved in not good enough. Read about "pseudo acromegaly".

And just a few months of ******** my pants? Really? No, we need to lower IR without messing with our liver function. Check out how the IRS gene defect lowers IGF levels, and that boosting IGF lowers sugar .

My IGF is 9th percentile. Too bad so many lab tests use "5-90% is the normal range", not subjective studies of morbidity.

 

[Marcus]

By all means find a cure for insulin resistance, you'll get no argument from me.



I think you have the wrong idea about Metformin though. It is extremely beneficial for the health of everyone who takes it, and not just diabetics. Over the decades the life extending properties of Metformin have been noticed, so much so the it is the first drug ever approved by the FDA for life extension studies in humans. http://www.lifeextension.com/magazi...-study-on-metformin-wins-fda-approval/page-01



Personally I never "**** my pants" when I started taking Met, I had occasional diarrhea for a couple weeks.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think you have the wrong idea about Metformin though. It is extremely beneficial for the health of everyone who takes it, and not just diabetics.

Lots of people may well benefit from it, but given its rather serious side effects (well beyond diarrhea), it would be quite extraordinary if there was nobody taking it who shouldn't be.

For example, metformin interferes with androgen receptors. This makes it more difficult to maintain, let alone build, muscle mass. But building muscle is one of the best ways to increase insulin sensitivity, and it has a bunch of other health benefits as well (increased bone density, better balance, protein reserves against health problems, etc). The loss of muscle mass can compound a lot of health problems, including those from diabetes.

 

[Marcus]

Lots of people may well benefit from it, but given its rather serious side effects (well beyond diarrhea), it would be quite extraordinary if there was nobody taking it who shouldn't be.

For example, metformin interferes with androgen receptors. This makes it more difficult to maintain, let alone build, muscle mass. But building muscle is one of the best ways to increase insulin sensitivity, and it has a bunch of other health benefits as well (increased bone density, better balance, protein reserves against health problems, etc). The loss of muscle mass can compound a lot of health problems, including those from diabetes.

Interesting. I haven't heard of this side effect. A brief bit of googleing shows this effect preventing prostate cancer, but I'm not seeing where it interferes with muscle mass, do you have a link? I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested to read about it.


There are conditions where Metformin use is contraindicated, in particular kidney disease. Anyone with a GFR <90 should not use it.


Should it be used by the general public for the purpose of life extension? That is yet to be determined, it's what the trials are all about.

 

[Ziggurat]

Interesting. I haven't heard of this side effect. A brief bit of googleing shows this effect preventing prostate cancer, but I'm not seeing where it interferes with muscle mass, do you have a link? I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested to read about it.

For example, metformin can decrease testosterone levels:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11707532

I don't think that's the only way it can interfere with muscle growth, though. It doesn't make it impossible to grow muscle, people can and do get stronger on metformin, but it can make it harder. The trade off may well be worth it for a lot of diabetics, and for people who are sedentary that might not make much difference, but you probably shouldn't be taking it if you don't have a compelling reason to.

 

[casebro]

For example, metformin can decrease testosterone levels:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11707532

I don't think that's the only way it can interfere with muscle growth, though. It doesn't make it impossible to grow muscle, people can and do get stronger on metformin, but it can make it harder. The trade off may well be worth it for a lot of diabetics, and for people who are sedentary that might not make much difference, but you probably shouldn't be taking it if you don't have a compelling reason to.

Hormones is complicated. That defective IRS gene I speak of is Insulin Receptor Substrate gene. The substrate is also used to make the Growth Hormone Receptor. The GHR triggers the liver to make the Insulin Like Growth Factor, IGF. So, fixing the IR will also mess with the IGF system.

But more likely the hormonal side effects of metformin are caused by the lowering of IR,which would lower the body's need to put out so much insulin, and since insulin acts like IGF, it is as if the body has less IGF for growth and repair. Ans since IGF/Insulin riggers the output of other hormnone, oops, change one butterfly in China and you get hurricanes in Florida.

Insulin activates 10 genes that IGF does not. IGF activates 27 genes that Insulin does not. They have overlap, but they are not identical in action. And since the IRS defect makes bad receptors for both,....

 

[Minoosh]

I know I feel much better, physically and mentally, if I shoot for less than 20g crabs and all of that from green leafy vegetables. The first week or two may suck, but once your body adapts it really feels great.

I looked up the ready-made Hormel Roast beef au jus. It's 640 calories for the container but there's sugar added, so that "meat" comes to 15 g carbs.

Does the 20g include dietary fiber?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Not speaking for Dr. Kieth, but most people looking to minimize their 'carbs' only count net carbs. Total minus fiber..


There is no fiber listed for the Roast beef au jus..

The 5 g of sugar in a 5oz serving apparently comes from added sugar in the form of dextrose.

When I look at 5oz roast chuck in my Cronometer app, is says " 354 calories and 0 net carbs ".

 

[Minoosh]

I do wonder at times how we ended up with cereal, toast and orange juice as a typical breakfast. When I had bagels for breakfast I was hungry all day; did better with a handful of mixed nuts.

I don't think all-meat would work for me, but I am interested in strictly limiting carbs for a couple of weeks for the mood benefits.

Mom turns 94 this month and I don't want to experiment much with her food. She can have my English muffin I guess , I'll just eat the butter!

What about just plain old fasting? Does that also favor fat burning or do you just burn muscle? I have adequate adipose reserves.

 

[William Parcher]

I do wonder at times how we ended up with cereal, toast and orange juice as a typical breakfast.

I'm unaware of American breakfasts that include toast with cereal (in milk).