John McCain Diagnosed With Brain Cancer

[abaddon]

John McCain will be laid to rest in a private ceremony on Sunday at the U.S. Naval Academy Cemetery in Annapolis, Maryland.

Ask yourself why the mango mussolini has been told to stay away. Then ask yourself is that what you want to be associated with?

Return with your answer. It would be interesting to hear it.

 

[Elagabalus]

I can't even wrap my mind around the mental gymnastics of attacking McCain's time as a POW. There's no way to attack him without attacking other downed pilots who made similar propaganda videos after being tortured in North Vietnam and North Korea. Vietnam was famous for Commander Denton, a shot down naval aviator, blinking "TORTURE" in morse code during such a propaganda film.

How military types accept this treatment of McCain by a notorious draft dodger is inexplicable to me. Trump is the ultimate Jody, banging women left and right and laughing at the GI who's too dumb to avoid Vietnam.

Tbf, I'm still try to wrap my head around the fact that I'm actually a hawk when it comes to US-Soviet Russia relations.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm wondering what Trump's pettiness regarding the flag does to the odds of Trump being reelected? I can imagine that more than a few military veterans who may have voted for Trump might not have because of this.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I can't even wrap my mind around the mental gymnastics of attacking McCain's time as a POW.

It's very simple. Party above all else. Trump is their leader, and anything that threatens his status is their enemy. There is no valid reason for dissension no matter how rational - you are either with him or against him.

They are all in now and there is no backing out. Trump could praise someone day and vilify them the next, and his supporters have to follow suit. The 'reasons' are irrelevant. When Trump says attack you attack - with enthusiasm. You might have to twist the truth, lie, or just plain make stuff up. Doesn't matter, the end justifies the means. No mental gymnastics required because facts don't matter.

 

[jimbob]

People forget he was offered a way out of the Hanoi Hilton because his father was an admiral, and he refused because the only way he was getting out is if everybody else got out. As a result he was tortured for several years.

He's a legitimate hero, and yet every time people tried to say he was, he'd push that title it onto someone else.

(Belated)

I'm not an American so I didn't know much about him, and I disagreed strongly with his politics, but this event in his history alone displayed more bravery and integrity than most people show in a lifetime.

It's no surprise Trump hated him, the contrast couldn't be clearer.

That's pretty much my view too.

Obviously flawed and with a few serious lapses of judgement that helped set the scene for US politics as they are today, but with massive personal courage and non-political integrity.

 

[Bob001]

I can't even wrap my mind around the mental gymnastics of attacking McCain's time as a POW. There's no way to attack him without attacking other downed pilots who made similar propaganda videos after being tortured in North Vietnam and North Korea. Vietnam was famous for Commander Denton, a shot down naval aviator, blinking "TORTURE" in morse code during such a propaganda film.
.....

Beyond that, McCain led the move to normalize relations with Vietnam after the war. Lindsey Graham is now talking about McCain's first trip back to Vietnam, where "he was treated like Elvis." With an example of forgiveness like that, it's hard (or at least it should be) for the rest of us to hold on to petty grudges.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ped-heal-the-wounds-of-war-idUSKCN1LC0P8?il=0

 

[Giordano]

trending a lot on Twitter are threads and memes claiming McCain was a traitor who ratted out the USA to Vietnam and was the direct cause of over 60 aircraft being shot down when he gave them classified info about their flight paths and trained their AA crews.

These are coming from Right Wing and Trump supporting accounts.
They are getting a lot of likes and retweets.

I find this type of thing extraordinarily and deeply disturbing. I was never a fan of most of McCain's policies and I always thought that he was a complex and internally highly conflicted person. He also tended to speak boldly but vote meekly. However I do believe that he did had his own fundamental sense of honor and an image of service to his country that he deeply believed in and which overlapped at least some of my own views. These features, however imperfect, increasingly contrasted with the disgusting abandonment of morality, honesty, moral values, and patriotism by the remainder of the Republican party. And I will respect him for his vote on Obamacare not matter what else he has done.

So to have him defamed not only by the totally immoral Trump, but more generally by the invention of outrageous falsehoods that, in our era of social media, are taken up and spread by raving idiots makes me deeply despair. Yet that is obviously the wave of the future: someone invents facts to advance their own political or social agenda and the true believers take up these "facts" without question (because these "facts" feed into memes that they already believe) and spread them with geometric amplification throughout the internet.

The smearing of McCain (which appears to have been successful based on favorability polls of Republicans) just proves that no one is exempt, even long time committed conservatives. Except Trump, whose favorability somehow is unaffected even by facts easily proven true (often simply by his own words). Perhaps only completely made up facts about Trump might impact his followers, although I am at a loss how to make up stories more outrageous and disgusting than the real ones . Sadly however probably a substantial percent of our population will accept as true only what they wish to believe and nothing else.

 

[LSSBB]

I find this type of thing extraordinarily and deeply disturbing. I was never a fan of most of McCain's policies and I always thought that he was a complex and internally highly conflicted person. He also tended to speak boldly but vote meekly. However I do believe that he did had his own fundamental sense of honor and an image of service to his country that he deeply believed in and which overlapped at least some of my own views. These features, however imperfect, increasingly contrasted with the disgusting abandonment of morality, honesty, moral values, and patriotism by the remainder of the Republican party. And I will respect him for his vote on Obamacare not matter what else he has done.

So to have him defamed not only by the totally immoral Trump, but more generally by the invention of outrageous falsehoods that, in our era of social media, are taken up and spread by raving idiots makes me deeply despair. Yet that is obviously the wave of the future: someone invents facts to advance their own political or social agenda and the true believers take up these "facts" without question (because these "facts" feed into memes that they already believe) and spread them with geometric amplification throughout the internet.

The smearing of McCain (which appears to have been successful based on favorability polls of Republicans) just proves that no one is exempt, even long time committed conservatives. Except Trump, whose favorability somehow is unaffected even by facts easily proven true (often simply by his own words). Perhaps only completely made up facts about Trump might impact his followers, although I am at a loss how to make up stories more outrageous and disgusting than the real ones . Sadly however probably a substantial percent of our population will accept as true only what they wish to believe and nothing else.

The only made-up facts That would work to convince them at this point would be made-up facts (or even the truth) about the economy, their own wages, or the taxes they pay. And they have plenty of their own made up facts to cover those.

 

[GlennB]

... Sadly however probably a substantial percent of our population will accept as true only what they wish to believe and nothing else.

Coincidentaly, we Bs were just listening to Simon + Garfunkel's Greatest Hits

 

[alfaniner]

This country is in a state of cold civil war,and I think it might well turn hot.

You know, two years ago that possibility would not have even crossed my mind. Now I think, yes, it's possible.

 

[dudalb]

The only made-up facts That woukd work to convince them at this point would be made-up facts (or even the truth) about the economy, their own wages, or the taxes they pay. And they have plenty of their own made up facts to cover those.

Or maybe made up facts of body bags coming home from some illconsidered and stupid war started by Donnie....

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I find this type of thing extraordinarily and deeply disturbing. I was never a fan of most of McCain's policies and I always thought that he was a complex and internally highly conflicted person. He also tended to speak boldly but vote meekly. However I do believe that he did had his own fundamental sense of honor and an image of service to his country that he deeply believed in and which overlapped at least some of my own views. These features, however imperfect, increasingly contrasted with the disgusting abandonment of morality, honesty, moral values, and patriotism by the remainder of the Republican party. And I will respect him for his vote on Obamacare not matter what else he has done.

So to have him defamed not only by the totally immoral Trump, but more generally by the invention of outrageous falsehoods that, in our era of social media, are taken up and spread by raving idiots makes me deeply despair. Yet that is obviously the wave of the future: someone invents facts to advance their own political or social agenda and the true believers take up these "facts" without question (because these "facts" feed into memes that they already believe) and spread them with geometric amplification throughout the internet.

The smearing of McCain (which appears to have been successful based on favorability polls of Republicans) just proves that no one is exempt, even long time committed conservatives. Except Trump, whose favorability somehow is unaffected even by facts easily proven true (often simply by his own words). Perhaps only completely made up facts about Trump might impact his followers, although I am at a loss how to make up stories more outrageous and disgusting than the real ones . Sadly however probably a substantial percent of our population will accept as true only what they wish to believe and nothing else.

The only upside with the cult of personality is that hopefully the RNC is wrecked if Trump is removed from the picture. Anyone with an integrity will have been purged by the conservative movement, so only the spineless enablers and Trump toadies will be left. Might make for a very weak party if the dear leader is busy warming a jail bed.

 

[Bob001]

This country is in a state of cold civil war,and I think it might well turn hot.

The problem with that is that liberals and progressives see themselves as serving all Americans, even the ones they disagree with. Only the right-wing divides America into "us vs. them," and right now, they have most of the power. Progressives aren't going to go to war against America, but Repubs would cheerfully go to war against anybody outside their bubble.

We’re currently sitting on a knife edge. If we fall off it in the wrong direction — specifically, if Republicans retain control of both houses of Congress in November — we will become another Poland or Hungary faster than you can imagine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/...k&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Opinion

 

[JoeMorgue]

"The other side is the one being divisive" is not... a thing. That's not how divisive works.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" is an absolute.

 

[Giordano]

double post

 

[Giordano]

the right-wing divides America into "us vs. them," and right now, they have most of the power. [snip]

This to me is the most unforgivable sin committed by Trump and his followers. To intentionally divide the country at all levels for mere political and personal gain is the ultimate treason More than half of the country does not support Trump, yet these Americans are repeatedly demonized, held up to contempt, and employed as targets of rabid hate. And it is used over and over again to undermine all levels of society. Nothing a Democrat, let alone a "liberal" can be trusted: no public statement, no law, judicial decision, no scientific finding, etc.

Not only is it inherently immoral, divisive, and subversive of our ideals and democracy itself, what will be left of our country afterward, with "half" of its citizens deeply hating the other"half"? This how one truly and forever destroys a nation and a society. Surely many in the Republican leadership are aware of this: are a 15% tax break for the wealthy and an overturn of Row vs. Wade enough for them to abandon their basic principles and the very future of our country? I find it remarkable that they can stay silent, or actually contribute to such an obvious attempt to instigate the equivalent of a civil war. Most of the the leadership must know from the histories of countries throughout the world what the outcome will be. And what of the resulting fate of themselves and their loved ones? Do they think that they will just flee from the smoking remnants of the USA and join their overseas bank accounts in Belize?

I thank McCain for his departing attempt to however gently remind the public of the importance of our shared values and the dangers of Trumpism.

 

[dudalb]

The problem with that is that liberals and progressives see themselves as serving all Americans, even the ones they disagree with. Only the right-wing divides America into "us vs. them," and right now, they have most of the power. Progressives aren't going to go to war against America, but Repubs would cheerfully go to war against anybody outside their bubble.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/...k&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Opinion

Maybe the Progressives will have to learn how to go to war.Just saying...

 

[JoeMorgue]

I always feel like I'm arguing both sides of the aisle here, that me saying "You can't just pretend the other side doesn't exist and you don't have to deal with them" isn't saying that I disagree that the "other side" isn't bad.

I'll still say that I'm not 100% sure if Liberals/Progressives/theDems have learned the exact right lesson from Trump but that doesn't make him the goodguy in all this.

 

[LSSBB]

I always feel like I'm arguing both sides of the aisle here, that me saying "You can't just pretend the other side doesn't exist and you don't have to deal with them" isn't saying that I disagree that the "other side" isn't bad.

I'll still say that I'm not 100% sure if Liberals/Progressives/theDems have learned the exact right lesson from Trump but that doesn't make him the goodguy in all this.

The problem is the defining of sides

One particular person, his coterie, and his diehard followers are tragically wrong. That doesn't mean anyone outside that circle is not wrong to some degree or other.

McCain was not in the Trump sphere, nor for that matter was Tipper Gore. They as individuals are human and can be wrong.

Trumpism however is a cancer, the perfect storm of intentional ignorance, intolerance, narcissism, and me-first attitude, fed by lies and nourished by corruption. 'tis on a whole 'nother level.

It's fine to be unaligned, but don't fall into comparing a smallish nectarine to The Giant Peach.

 

[TheSupermeerkat]

He hated gooks.

The exact quote was “I hate THE gooks. I will hate them as long as I live.” He was specifically referring to the North Vietnamese. How do we know? Because he was quite candid about it.

“I was referring to my prison guards,” McCain said, “and I will continue to refer to them in language that might offend some people because of the beating and torture of my friends.”