Jogging in Georgia while black.

[CaptainHowdy]

Armed men in vehicles chasing you down and you would still trust them not to murder you? I'll take my chances with actively defending myself if I'm blocked.

He wasn't blocked.

 

[Darat]

It only "stands to reason" if their actions that night were reasonable. They drove after Arbury and tried to corner him on the road, not reasonable.

And I am sure no would have seen him running through their yards being chased by two men and think he may have been the one in the wrong...

 

[wareyin]

They had been chasing him, and not shooting. It stands to reason they would have continued not shooting.

They didn't shoot him until they did. The fact is that they did shoot him, and so we know they were willing to shoot him.

They were not sniping at moving targets. Travis did not fire till Arbery was lunging at him,

Travis fired when Arbrey had barely cleared the front of the truck.

and there is no reason to think he would have started shooting towards his beloved neighbors houses, as that would have been what Arbery was running by. As in, right by their windows, that buckshot penetrates quite easily.

Travis did fire while pointed towards his neighbors houses. Why do you say he wouldn't have done what he actually did on the video?

 

[bluesjnr]

Watch how fast Arbury exits the construction site and hits the road. Couple seconds. Same thing in reverse, but Travis would be pointing towards his neighbors houses, making him hesitate.

Plus I gather you don't shoot, right? This is a shotgun, with a dozen or so spreading pellets, not a bullet. I also take it you never tried to hit a high speed moving target. Not the easiest thing either

Just to illustrate this point. I have been shot, by a shotgun, wielded by an inexperienced gun, multiple times whilst beating on the hills and have suffered not so much as a scratch. This is because I was beyond the effective range of the load.

The average runner will cover 50 metres in under 8 seconds. Depending on the round (not buckshot) he would have survived a hit at just past that range

But let's face it, Aubrey didn't have time to do the maths and consider this in the split seconds he had available so it's still the case that he was murdered and that the McMichaels are on the hook for this.

Oh, and "No it doesn't!" is my advance reply to any suggestions of "So, that means [insert ridiculous twisting of my words and intent] you racist"

 

[wareyin]

Just to illustrate this point. I have been shot, by a shotgun, wielded by an inexperienced gun, multiple times whilst beating on the hills and have suffered not so much as a scratch. This is because I was beyond the effective range of the load.

The average runner will cover 50 metres in under 8 seconds. Depending on the round (not buckshot) he would have survived a hit at just past that range

But let's face it, Aubrey didn't have time to do the maths and consider this in the split seconds he had available so it's still the case that he was murdered and that the McMichaels are on the hook for this.

Agreed. Arbery was already highly stressed from running for his life for over 4 minutes. Second guessing what he should have done does him no good, and would do posters pontificating about it from their computer chairs no good either. If they ever find themselves running for their lives from multiple cars full of gun toting vigilantes they aren't going to have the luxury of thinking things through to the nth degree or the wits to remember that one discussion they had on ISF years ago.

Oh, and "No it doesn't!" is my advance reply to any suggestions of "So, that means [insert ridiculous twisting of my words and intent] you racist"

You aren't making an attempt to blame Arbery for not performing the type of Sherlock Holmes movie calculations that some posters imagine would have been possible and would have somehow made him escape, win the girl, and have a witty one-liner to fling at the McMichaels as he turned the trap back on them. I'm certainly not going to accuse you of being a racist.

 

[Thermal]

Agreed. Arbery was already highly stressed from running for his life for over 4 minutes.

Look at your clairvoyance! First off, how do you know he was stressed? As far as we know, no guns were out till the very end, when Travis steps out of the truck and the video captures the final moments. How do you know Arbery wasn't just thinking 'whats up with these weirdos?'

And 'running for his life for over four minutes'. I take it you don't run, either. A good runner will drop a ******* mile in that time. Now take a look back at the map upthread that traces the movements. He covers a couple hundred yards back and forth total. That would mean he was moving at a fairly leisurely trot. As I said, I think it's a fair bet that Arbery didn't realize he was in serious danger till just before the film rolls. This interpretation explains the most, including why he continued to run straight at the truck. It was the first time a gun was in view. He was not intimidated by the weirdos before that.

Second guessing what he should have done does him no good, and would do posters pontificating about it from their computer chairs no good either. If they ever find themselves running for their lives from multiple cars full of gun toting vigilantes they aren't going to have the luxury of thinking things through to the nth degree or the wits to remember that one discussion they had on ISF years ago.

Yeah, that's why some of us consider these things in advance. While you speculate on how stressed he was during for minutes of running, I'm thinking about a tactical takeaway that might help me to think a tiny bit faster in an emergency. On a related note, you still haven't answered what his optimum option was, as you are so contemptuous of what others opine. Have at it.

You aren't making an attempt to blame Arbery for not performing the type of Sherlock Holmes movie calculations that some posters imagine would have been possible and would have somehow made him escape, win the girl, and have a witty one-liner to fling at the McMichaels as he turned the trap back on them. I'm certainly not going to accuse you of being a racist.

You think 'dont run towards a psycho with a shotgun with buddies backing him' is a ...what did you call it... Sherlock Holmes movie calculation? Well, to each his own level.

 

[Ranb]

He wasn't blocked.

Arbery is running down the road with a vehicle behind him. He runs around the vehicle stopped on the road in front of him to be met by a man wielding a shotgun. That is blocked, by a truck and an armed man.

What definition of the word blocked are you using?

 

[wareyin]

Look at your clairvoyance! First off, how do you know he was stressed? As far as we know, no guns were out till the very end, when Travis steps out of the truck and the video captures the final moments. How do you know Arbery wasn't just thinking 'whats up with these weirdos?'

It requires no clairvoyance to see that someone being chased by two cars full of gun toting vigilantes will cause stress. It requires herculean levels of ignorance of the human condition to believe that such a situation would not cause stress.

And 'running for his life for over four minutes'. I take it you don't run, either. A good runner will drop a ******* mile in that time. Now take a look back at the map upthread that traces the movements. He covers a couple hundred yards back and forth total. That would mean he was moving at a fairly leisurely trot. As I said, I think it's a fair bet that Arbery didn't realize he was in serious danger till just before the film rolls.

And you'd be just as wrong in your assumption that I don't run as you are in assuming being chased by multiple cars full of gun toting vigilantes wouldn't stress someone out. There is a difference between running for exercise or sport and running because someone is trying to kill you. Your ignorance of such seems so...cut off from normal humanity that I struggle to believe it is real.

This interpretation explains the most, including why he continued to run straight at the truck. It was the first time a gun was in view. He was not intimidated by the weirdos before that.

You've already been told, in the police reports and in the video why he ran towards the truck. He was being chased by Roddy towards the truck.

Yeah, that's why some of us consider these things in advance. While you speculate on how stressed he was during for minutes of running, I'm thinking about a tactical takeaway that might help me to think a tiny bit faster in an emergency. On a related note, you still haven't answered what his optimum option was, as you are so contemptuous of what others opine. Have at it.

You can't even remember from one day to the next that Arbery was being herded by a chase car, but you think you can analyze this situation well enough to casually pull it out and use it to make the perfect choice when you are running for your own life? I would suggest being unable to understand the situation from the safety of a computer screen doesn't bode well for understanding it when you are running for your life.

You think 'dont run towards a psycho with a shotgun with buddies backing him' is a ...what did you call it... Sherlock Holmes movie calculation? Well, to each his own level.

I'm guessing you haven't seen the Robert Downey Jr Sherlock movies? In those versions Sherlock basically pauses the fight scene he is in to know which way his attacker will punch, so that Sherlock can plan a counter move, which will cause the attacker to react another way, which will allow Sherlock to do the next attack, and so on, for about 9 moves in advance, all while the attacker is throwing his first punch. It's the level of analysis you are attempting to perform from your computer chair, with days to think about it, and are still failing miserably at, while claiming Arbery should have done so while running for his life.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

As far as I know we don't whether or not Arbery knew they had guns before the video started. They could have brandished them already, or they could have yelled "stop of we'll shoot" or something similar. Or they could have told him they'd shoot him next time when the dad confronted him at the construction site. Or Arbery could have just surmised they have guns. But we don't have any of this info.

Still tough to come up with a scenario that makes what Arbery did the most prudent course of action.

DISCLAIMER: I don't defend what the McMichael's did, and I don't think all black people should be murdered.

 

[Myriad]

I would like those claiming that Arbery should have run off the road to take a look at the map and satellite view of Satilla Shores and Holmes Road, and tell me what his next move after that should have been, assuming he wasn't immediately shot as he left the road, and assuming the vehicles didn't leave the road to chase him.

 

[Thermal]

I would like those claiming that Arbery should have run off the road to take a look at the map and satellite view of Satilla Shores and Holmes Road, and tell me what his next move after that should have been, assuming he wasn't immediately shot as he left the road, and assuming the vehicles didn't leave the road to chase him.

The argument that he could have left the road is simply a response to these asinine assertions that he could not possibly have done so, and had no choice but to run headlong into the shotgun, or continue the chase against cars on the asphalt for eternity.

The current argument is *checks notes* that stepping off the asphalt requires Herculean thought and days of consideration (seriously, how do these people cross the street?).

Better question, Myriad: do you think he had no other options? Why?

 

[quadraginta]

Watch how fast Arbury exits the construction site and hits the road. Couple seconds. Same thing in reverse, but Travis would be pointing towards his neighbors houses, making him hesitate.

Plus I gather you don't shoot, right? This is a shotgun, with a dozen or so spreading pellets, not a bullet. I also take it you never tried to hit a high speed moving target. Not the easiest thing either

If it was that hard then people wouldn't use shotguns and buckshot for deer hunting, where the range can be as much as fifty yards (possibly more), and the likelihood that the target is moving is not all that low.

But I gather you shoot, so you must know that.

 

[quadraginta]

Just to illustrate this point. I have been shot, by a shotgun, wielded by an inexperienced gun, multiple times whilst beating on the hills and have suffered not so much as a scratch. This is because I was beyond the effective range of the load.

The average runner will cover 50 metres in under 8 seconds. Depending on the round (not buckshot) he would have survived a hit at just past that range

<snip>

And how would you know that the shotgun was not loaded with buckshot?

More to the point, how would Arbery know?

If someone is armed with a shotgun and threatening me my first assumption will not be that he's loaded out out with birdshot or rock salt and all I have to do is dance away a little ways and I'll be invulnerable.

You might react differently, but it is apparent that you have more faith in human nature than I do when it comes to armed assailants.

 

[Thermal]

If it was that hard then people wouldn't use shotguns and buckshot for deer hunting, where the range can be as much as fifty yards (possibly more), and the likelihood that the target is moving is not all that low.

But I gather you shoot, so you must know that.

That's about double the range I would shoot at a whitetail, and typically wait till they were grazing or otherwise pretty still.

And I said not the easiest thing in the world, not impossible. People think you just point and pop. Not so. A fast moving target is harder...much harder...to hit, and the shooter would have only two seconds or so based on how fast Arbery moved from the front of the site to the street.

 

[Thermal]

And how would you know that the shotgun was not loaded with buckshot?

More to the point, how would Arbery know?

If someone is armed with a shotgun and threatening me my first assumption will not be that he's loaded out out with birdshot or rock salt and all I have to do is dance away a little ways and I'll be invulnerable.

You might react differently, but it is apparent that you have more faith in human nature than I do when it comes to armed assailants.

You mean you might try to get away from him? Out of his sight and range, possibly even off the pavement, you mean? Do tell.

 

[Checkmite]

If Arbery had "run off the road" he would've been shot by the same people. This time for "running aggressively toward an innocent person's house" or some such lie.

I think some people have forgotten that his wandering onto some rando's property was the entire justification behind chasing him down with shotguns to begin with.

 

[smartcooky]

Watch how fast Arbury exits the construction site and hits the road. Couple seconds. Same thing in reverse, but Travis would be pointing towards his neighbors houses, making him hesitate.

Plus I gather you don't shoot, right? This is a shotgun, with a dozen or so spreading pellets, not a bullet. I also take it you never tried to hit a high speed moving target. Not the easiest thing either

This is just completely wrong.

I am just an average shooter. I have about a 75%+ kill rate shooting ducks and geese 100+ feet away and flying across my line of fire.

The position Arbury and Travis were in when Arbury rounded the front of the truck meant that ANY direction Arbury ran in was going to be directly away from Travis with hardly any angular change. Under those circumstances, even I will drop a man, 50 ft away, running away from me 100% of the time. If Arbury ran away, no matter how fast he ran, he was an easy target.... you cannot outrun 12 gauge pellets!

 

[Craig4]

As far as I know we don't whether or not Arbery knew they had guns before the video started. They could have brandished them already, or they could have yelled "stop of we'll shoot" or something similar. Or they could have told him they'd shoot him next time when the dad confronted him at the construction site. Or Arbery could have just surmised they have guns. But we don't have any of this info.

Still tough to come up with a scenario that makes what Arbery did the most prudent course of action.

DISCLAIMER: I don't defend what the McMichael's did, and I don't think all black people should be murdered.

It was never Arbery's responsibility to come up with a prudent course of action. Arbery was attempting to avoid being unlawfully detained by two stupid crackers when said stupid crackers murdered him. he had no way of knowing what the crackers had in mind when idiot boy got out with a shotgun. The McMichaels are clearly of a class that has a long history in Georgia of murdering black people. All the crackers had to do was stay home, in their place and none of this would have happened. Abery was forced on the spot to make a life and death decision because these stupid crackers thought they were more than they were.

 

[bluesjnr]

And how would you know that the shotgun was not loaded with buckshot?

I don't and never said or even hinted that it was

More to the point, how would Arbery know?

It is pretty definite that he wouldn't and I never said nor even hinted that he would have

If someone is armed with a shotgun and threatening me my first assumption will not be that he's loaded out out with birdshot or rock salt and all I have to do is dance away a little ways and I'll be invulnerable.

This part of your reply seems to address an argument that is not present in any way shape or form in my post.

You might react differently, but it is apparent that you have more faith in human nature than I do when it comes to armed assailants.

This part of your reply seems to address an argument that is not present in any way shape or form in my post.

 

[Craig4]

He wasn't blocked.

Yeah, stopping and talking to stupid ass crackers with guns chasing him is a totally rational thing to do if you're a black person in the South. Emmet Till would be alive and a grandparent today if he had just stopped and reasoned with the dumb ass crackers with guns who chased him. Arbery had probably figured out what kind of scum these two were and he knew he was about to get lynched.

This all happened because these two, now three stupid crackers couldn't just stay home, in their place.