Jogging in Georgia while black.

[ponderingturtle]

I always think that 'wink and nod, sure fellow whitey, we'll just sweep this pesky murder under the rug" thing is a cop out. But here it is, in 2020 America. Not one person involved in law enforcement seems to have blown the whistle. That's some widespread culpability

Look virtually no cop is going to go against another cop like that, you have to keep your expectations of the police reasonable.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I agree with you largely but you seem to be making the case that the roadblock was set up primarily as a method to execute Arbery with malice aforethought.

I asked the question earlier and don't think you responded? I'd appreciate it if you might consider doing so.

Do you think Arbery was going to be shot, even if he hadn't have made an attempt to wrest the shot gun from McMichael?

I reject questions of all kind as to "Well what if the dead black guy had done this?"

Again I'm not concerned in alternative universe fan fiction.

He's dead in the real world. I don't care if he's alive in other timelines.

I find the simple obsession with what the dead guy could have done differently offensive.

Now to answer your question.

Do I think with any degree of certainty that the McMichaels took after Arbery with the clear, actual, conscious desire to murder him per se? No. Much in the way I bet they would pass a "Are you racist" polygraph I bet they would pass a "Did you want to murder him" one as well.

I just fail to see how that matters since he still wound up dead and their entire made up, after the fact, provably false justification for even engaging him in the first place has been... not even proven wrong just rightfully dismissed as meaningless as well as proven wrong.

 

[smartcooky]

You haven't demonstrated he is a thief running from consequences in this context, you have rampantly speculated that he is a thief based on whatever reason you can come make up with to justify it.

Again, it is standard operating procedure for this poster to spin any evidence he can find (or in the absence of evidence, just make stuff up), and handwave away anything that can't be made to fit, in order to promote his "blacks are all bad" narrative.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

I linked the story which had a reference to copper being stolen earlier in the thread. I tried to find it again but am having difficulty. Not sure if a story was edited or what.

I thought it was from The Blaze, Daily Beast, or Washington Post. I went into my browser history to articles on all 3 and didn't see it. Maybe it was another site.

The article had mentioned the fishing gear, and it said copper was stolen from the site and the cameras had been purchased in response to that. I'm not sure if it said copper pipe or wire.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Okay. And?

Who cares? What's the point in all this outside of simple pissing on the grave of a murder victim?

Black lives to not become forever forfeit when they commit a minor crime.

If I know my neighbor has unpaid parking tickets I don't get to "question" him with a shotgun while he's mowing his lawn and shoot him because he resists and I '"feared for my life."

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Okay. And?

Who cares? What's the point in all this outside of simple pissing on the grave of a murder victim?

Black lives to not become forever forfeit when they commit a minor crime.

If I know my neighbor has unpaid parking tickets I don't get to "question" him with a shotgun while he's mowing his lawn and shoot him because he resists and I '"feared for my life."

Alright, fine - you've convinced me and worn me down.

These backward hillbilly hick redneck white KKK supremacist Trump MAGA Deliverance pieces of human filth need to get the chair.

Actually, can we invent some sort of electric bench and put the DA on there with them?

How dare he have assessed the facts of this case and determined charges weren't appropriate? This was a straight up racist lynching, after all.

 

[Crossbow]

I linked the story which had a reference to copper being stolen earlier in the thread. I tried to find it again but am having difficulty. Not sure if a story was edited or what.

I thought it was from The Blaze, Daily Beast, or Washington Post. I went into my browser history to articles on all 3 and didn't see it. Maybe it was another site.

The article had mentioned the fishing gear, and it said copper was stolen from the site and the cameras had been purchased in response to that. I'm not sure if it said copper pipe or wire.

So what?

According to you, the prior thefts do not matter in this case.

Why is the whole "it's not okay to shoot and kill someone for stealing stuff" meme still going so strong in here?

For the last time (lol, if only): he. was. not. shot. for. thievery.

No matter what was or was not true about his criminality or lack thereof, no matter how legitimate confronting him was or was not, he was shot and killed for actions he took in the last few seconds of his life. Actions which included charging, punching, and wrestling for a shotgun.

The Pope could get himself shot doing that.

 

[Thermal]

I reject questions of all kind as to "Well what if the dead black guy had done this?"

Again I'm not concerned in alternative universe fan fiction.

He's dead in the real world. I don't care if he's alive in other timelines.

I find the simple obsession with what the dead guy could have done differently offensive.

Now to answer your question.

Do I think with any degree of certainty that the McMichaels took after Arbery with the clear, actual, conscious desire to murder him per se? No. Much in the way I bet they would pass a "Are you racist" polygraph I bet they would pass a "Did you want to murder him" one as well.

I just fail to see how that matters since he still wound up dead and their entire made up, after the fact, provably false justification for even engaging him in the first place has been... not even proven wrong just rightfully dismissed as meaningless as well as proven wrong.

I think bluesjnr asks if premeditation makes a difference. I think Its night and day beteeen a ****** hunt, as it has been so quaintly put, and accidental killing while wrestling with a gun, when they were kinda sorta technically legal to open carry as they did.

Yes, Arbery is wrongfully dead one way or the other. Why do you treat fiddling with the variables to talk about how such a tragedy not be repeated to be such a horror?

 

[Babbylonian]

I think bluesjnr asks if premeditation makes a difference. I think Its night and day beteeen a ****** hunt, as it has been so quaintly put, and accidental killing while wrestling with a gun, when they were kinda sorta technically legal to open carry as they did.

Except they weren't legal to pursue him, they weren't legal to attempt a roadblock, they weren't legal to detain him at gunpoint. Let's not pretend that he just happened to see someone holding a gun and decided to try and take it. He had every reason to believe that he was in immediate danger of being killed and he had already tried to run away.

 

[carlitos]

I linked the story which had a reference to copper being stolen earlier in the thread. I tried to find it again but am having difficulty. Not sure if a story was edited or what.

I thought it was from The Blaze, Daily Beast, or Washington Post. I went into my browser history to articles on all 3 and didn't see it. Maybe it was another site.

The article had mentioned the fishing gear, and it said copper was stolen from the site and the cameras had been purchased in response to that. I'm not sure if it said copper pipe or wire.

That's because you made it up! When you search Google News for "Larry English Georgia Copper" the only articles returned say:
"Missing: copper ‎| Must include: copper"

New video of Ahmaud just making sure the building was up to code, mostly at what looks to be about 3am, as far back as October:

Link to WSAV3 video from today

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/w0kJRpP.png[/qimg]

So he was in there, sometimes shirtless, over the course of several months. Now apparently none of these videos directly capture him stealing anything? Or so I'm hearing. But the home owner says he had the cameras installed in reaction to things, including copper, going missing.

A lie. This video mentions nothing about copper.

This apparently comes from the local NBC affiliate, still working on finding a direct link:

"The homeowner stated he installed cameras due to previous theft of items during construction, including copper piping."

A lie.

From The Blaze:

# of times the word "copper" appears in that article = 0

I saw some people on Twitter.......

Maybe that's your source!

The Washington Post

So we've somehow gone from "oh yeah, had $2,500 worth of fishing gear stolen and copper piping too"

Washington Post article does not mention copper. I am not shocked.

and "oh yeah, got the cameras specifically because things were stolen during construction, including copper piping"
to now "oh no no, no robberies or burglaries ever"

I guess if your going to write dialogue for your characters, you may as well put the dialogue in quotation marks. Still fiction though.

...........
We do have him on record with media though saying copper piping + fishing gear + other stuff + got the cameras specifically because of this.

Nope. Just something you made up. A lie that you are repeating.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

I think bluesjnr asks if premeditation makes a difference. I think Its night and day beteeen a ****** hunt, as it has been so quaintly put, and accidental killing while wrestling with a gun, when they were kinda sorta technically legal to open carry as they did.

Yes, Arbery is wrongfully dead one way or the other. Why do you treat fiddling with the variables to talk about how such a tragedy not be repeated to be such a horror?

A flicker of reasonableness... this cannot be permitted.

Except they weren't legal to pursue him, they weren't legal to attempt a roadblock, they weren't legal to detain him at gunpoint. Let's not pretend that he just happened to see someone holding a gun and decided to try and take it. He had every reason to believe that he was in immediate danger of being killed and he had already tried to run away.

Or, he was so certain they were NOT going to shoot him that this formed a considerable part of the basis for him thinking he could try rushing the guy and grabbing the gun.

It's entirely possible Mr. Arbery sized them up as what they were: concerned neighbors trying to hold him for police to arrive. However, he may have made the determination that they didn't have the balls to shoot if he made a sudden and unexpected attack.

"These fools think I'm going to surrender and just quietly wait here for the cops, they're too cowardly to pull the trigger, and I'm going to use that to my advantage"

Any reason to think that's not possible?

 

[Thermal]

Except they weren't legal to pursue him, they weren't legal to attempt a roadblock, they weren't legal to detain him at gunpoint. Let's not pretend that he just happened to see someone holding a gun and decided to try and take it. He had every reason to believe that he was in immediate danger of being killed and he had already tried to run away.

Agreed. Arbery is 100% clean and clear in any scenario. What we are talking about is what the McMichaels are guilty of. I think a lot, and should be doing north of 25 years. But I don't agree that it was a racially motivated premeditated murder. I think it was a property related (Travis' 9mm) aggravated assault et am with an accidental murder, with or without being racist. Law enforcement cover up makes it twenty times worse.

I'm seeing the whole While Black as kind of irrelevant. The killing stands without it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Agreed. Arbery is 100% clean and clear in any scenario. What we are talking about is what the McMichaels are guilty of. I think a lot, and should be doing north of 25 years. But I don't agree that it was a racially motivated premeditated murder. I think it was a property related (Travis' 9mm) aggravated assault et am with an accidental murder, with or without being racist. Law enforcement cover up makes it twenty times worse.

I'm seeing the whole While Black as kind of irrelevant. The killing stands without it.

The killing stands regardless of whether racial bias was a motivator, sure. On the other hand, I'm inclined to think that the DA sweeping it under the rug and not even performing a cursory investigation of what was clearly an illegal act by the McMichaelses... I think race is likely a considerable factor in that decision.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think bluesjnr asks if premeditation makes a difference. I think Its night and day beteeen a ****** hunt, as it has been so quaintly put, and accidental killing while wrestling with a gun, when they were kinda sorta technically legal to open carry as they did.

Yes premeditated murder vs felony murder, of course these are often covered by the same law at the same level.

ETA

Yep they are the same crime in Georgia Felony murder.

"16-5-1. Murder; felony murder


(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life."

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-1/16-5-1

So their illegal assault and detention or going on a ***** hunt are legally the same crime in Georgia.

 

[Thermal]

The killing stands regardless of whether racial bias was a motivator, sure. On the other hand, I'm inclined to think that the DA sweeping it under the rug and not even performing a cursory investigation of what was clearly an illegal act by the McMichaelses... I think race is likely a considerable factor in that decision.

Agreed. As Suburban Turkey said, prob some racism and some thin blue line involved in that. Im really troubled that no one blew the whistle till Twitter got hold of Roddys video though. No one knew? I mean, really?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Agreed. As Suburban Turkey said, prob some racism and some thin blue line involved in that. Im really troubled that no one blew the whistle till Twitter got hold of Roddys video though. No one knew? I mean, really?

You mean no one cared. And who would care for some thug getting what he deserves from our buddy and his son?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

That's because you made it up! When you search Google News for "Larry English Georgia Copper" the only articles returned say:
"Missing: copper ‎| Must include: copper"




A lie. This video mentions nothing about copper.


A lie.



# of times the word "copper" appears in that article = 0


Maybe that's your source!




Washington Post article does not mention copper. I am not shocked.



I guess if your going to write dialogue for your characters, you may as well put the dialogue in quotation marks. Still fiction though.




Nope. Just something you made up. A lie that you are repeating.

Expect the deafening sound of crickets.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

A lie.

I do not lie, and that's a silly accusation.

Do I pass along rumors and do I tend to latch onto things which confirm my narrative / biases? Sure. Me and 8 billion other people.

Here is the image I saw - and the person linking it claimed this was from "the local NBC affiliate" - I remember now, I was unsuccessful finding the original website / link for this a few days ago. Maybe your sleuthing will prove more successful using this exact phrase. I was using the wayback machine trying to see if anything was in there, no luck so far:

EDIT:

I think this may be based on transcribing a video - I am reviewing some videos from local news channels to see if this mention of the copper piping is in any of them.

 

[bluesjnr]

...snip...
Now to answer your question.

Do I think with any degree of certainty that the McMichaels took after Arbery with the clear, actual, conscious desire to murder him per se? No. Much in the way I bet they would pass a "Are you racist" polygraph I bet they would pass a "Did you want to murder him" one as well.

I just fail to see how that matters since he still wound up dead and their entire made up, after the fact, provably false justification for even engaging him in the first place has been... not even proven wrong just rightfully dismissed as meaningless as well as proven wrong.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. You are, of course, correct in saying [whatever the case] "he still wound up dead".

FYI, my reason for asking is to gauge how entrenched you and others may be in the "they are racist" argument. No more, no less.

 

[CORed]

Thank you for taking the time to answer. You are, of course, correct in saying [whatever the case] "he still wound up dead".

FYI, my reason for asking is to gauge how entrenched you and others may be in the "they are racist" argument. No more, no less.

It's conceivable that racism wasn't the primary motivation. However, I think there was most likely racism involved in that they assumed Arbery was up to no good primarily because he was black.