Jogging in Georgia while black.

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JoeMorgue said:
On the 911 call the only descriptive term they used to describe Aberny was "Black." Not tall, short, fat, skinny... black. That's where they mind went and were it was at when they gunned him down in broad daylight with no fear of reprisal.
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The callers said 'black male' That's exactly the kind of description a cop gives. They don't ask for freaking weight or muscle tone. Black male, white shirt. The first and most distinctive traits seen you quickly identify someone at a glance.

I get it. You, for some mind boggling reason, hate to actually call anything racism. I don't know if your just another person who has that "The liberals play the race card too much so I'll just deny all the time to balance it out" fetish or what.
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You're lying. What I don't do is project racism, just because it is plausible. That is absolutely no different than other kinds of prejudices.

The McMichaels could very well be racist. No reason to doubt it. Also no reason to project it. Their actions here were a sicko power trip, not singling out black people for unusual treatment.

JoeMorgue said:
Yeah we've already been told how Aberey is still alive in all the alternative timelines where he did this or didn't do this.

They were in a truck. If he had ran... they would have just chased him down. The confrontation was inevitable. It was going to happen. Dude couldn't run forever.
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Hop off the roadway and those butterballs couldn't have followed the fit Arbery for ten yards.
 
Thermal said:
You're lying. What I don't do is project racism, just because it is plausible. That is absolutely no different than other kinds of prejudices.
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Because you think looking at every incident in a perfect vacuum makes you "more rational" than the rest of us. You ignore context and trends and want to look at every racist event as if it is the first one to ever happen.

That's the problem. Every discussion of a racist incident with you includes proving racism is a thing from scratch every time. You also want to act like racism has never happened before so every racist incident has to be proven to some absurd degree. It's why you're so goddamn obsessed with alternative universes where the black person did something different.

It's the classic racist apologetic argument. When a cop stands by the side of the road where pretty much everyone is speeding, but only pulls over the black motorist, you're gonna argue that "Well since every individual person that go pulled over was speeding, we can't prove it was racism."

"Racism is the most likely factor" isn't a prejudice, it's being minimally observant.

Go on. Keep calling me a liar if it makes you feel better. I'm not the one with Skeptic Tank on my side in this discussion. I'll be able to sleep at night.
 
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Thermal said:
Don't start. Enough posters lying in the thread.

The people who claimed to recognize Arbery as a regular runner apparently did not accost him, just as the pastors neighbors did not accost the pastor.

The McMichaels and maybe Roddy were the bad actors here. And the DA/investigators, who are even worse. The big societal comment I see in this story is carrying/vigilantis, corrupt good ol' boys, and a heaping side of cowardice and stupidity, not racism.
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The McMichaels claimed to recognize Arbery as well, remember?
 
Thermal said:
Amen. There's a time to throw down and a time to run like hell to stay alive. Confronting Deliverance psychos is one of those 'put as much asphalt as you can between you' moments
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Arbery tried to put as much asphalt as he could between him and the McMichaels. They gave chase.
 
Maybe, just maybe the black guy didn't make perfect tactical decisions at every step while the two, three armed people were running him down in the truck.

And maybe, just maybe, none of it goddamn matters anyway.

Again the utter fascination with how the black person could have handled the situation better has really, really icky overtones.

We don't run tactical analysis on murdered white people.
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
Re: the water pipe thing, what I’ve heard is that police dispatch records for that day include a radio transmission of an officer saying they needed the utility company to come out and stop water at the house under construction because water was flowing from it toward the crime scene.

Would be quite a coincidence if the water pipes there had randomly popped on their own right around the time he was in there. Keep in mind the copper pipes were stolen much earlier on another occasion, probably by Ahmaud.

Did he try to yank PVC water pipes out? Someone said this wouldn’t make sense due to lack of value. Maybe, or maybe it was pipes we don’t see on the surveillance video we have so far, and maybe he tried at them but lost interest when water started spraying everywhere. Or maybe he wasn’t above vandalism.

Probably one of these things we’ll know the full details of a year from now and in the meantime I’ll be disparaged for raising it.
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Until you have something stronger than "what I've heard" the rest is nothing but fanfic. And if you think pointing that out is disparaging, feel free...
 
P.J. Denyer said:
Until you have something stronger than "what I've heard" the rest is nothing but fanfic. And if you think pointing that out is disparaging, feel free...
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Seriously at this point he might as well be arguing that we can't prove that Arberny wasn't the lead scout of pod-people style alien invasion force and by shooting him the McMichaels saved us all from slavery in the Zorlackian Dilithium Crystal Mines.
 
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Darat said:
Remember we know there were no series of robberies/burglaries, the construction site had never had any thefts, the owner had never released any videos and so on, so all those "reasons" that they gave for targeting their victim were lies. That means we can discount those from their statements, therefore from their statements we are left with the only reason they gave - which is that he was a black man they'd previously seen in their neighbourhood.
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But, but what about the copper pipes that they were apparently fitting in parallel with the PVC ones or the $2500 of fishing equipment that a homeowner who didn't currently occupy the building had decided to store in an unsecured building site and not report, indeed deny was, stolen, or the wave of secret burglaries that only the dynamic duo had heard of? Until these and other made up alternate facts have been disproved can we really say it's case closed?

Where was he when JFK was shot? Or Princess Diana died huh? Just don't want to answer that do you!


Eta: Ninja'd by JoeMorgue to some extent.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Other systems. I don't trust Glynn County, GA to handle this case, given how the prosecutors and members of the city council have been acting. The state or Federal government should be involved.
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Ah, okay, yes that's a good suggestion. I hadn't realized it was still being handled in that County. I think I must have just assumed that they would have moved it to the state level or to a different jurisdiction.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Mainstream reporting about firearms details is notoriously bad.

It's possible the shotgun was loaded with slugs, but speculating based on the bad verbiage of CNN is probably a waste of time.
....
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More here:
An autopsy report from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation obtained by ABC News determined that Ahmaud Arbery died of multiple shotgun wounds.
The report, which was issued by the Glenn County coroner's office on April 1, provided more details into the injuries the 25-year-old sustained during the incident with two men on Feb. 23. Eleven shotgun pellets were removed from Arbery's chest, according to the report, and there were several injuries throughout his body.

"This 25-year-old black male, Ahmaud Arbery, died of multiple shotgun wounds sustained during a struggle for the shotgun," the corner said.
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https://abcnews.go.com/US/ahmaud-arbery-died-multiple-gunshot-wounds-autopsy-finds/story?id=70634924

I continue to wonder how the shotgun "went off" three times, with moments between each shot. Even if the first shot was an accident, somebody pulled the trigger two more times, and if it was a pump he also had to rack the slide twice. It wouldn't surprise me if the first shot struck Arbery's wrist during the struggle, he would very likely have let go and stepped back in pain and surprise, and the next two shots -- not on camera -- were deliberately aimed.
 
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DevilsAdvocate said:
I think it would be hard to prove a hate crime here. They stopped him because they thought he was a burglar, not just because he was black. I think racial attitudes played a role, but from the evidence I have seen I don't think it can be shown that this happened specifically because of race.

Also, even it it was a hate crime it appears this particular type of hate crime would be maximum of life in prison, not the death penalty.
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I agree that it could be difficult to get a conviction for a hate crime on the part of the McMichaelses... but I think bring a hate crime charge against the DA who lied and hand-waved the whole thing away in the first place would be a great idea.
 
Meadmaker said:
And I heard that Greg McMichael was an Eagle in the local Ku Klux Klan. Maybe it's not true. Dunno.


Come on, dude. Links or it didn't happen.
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I heard the Black Panthers turned up outside the building site with a Tyrannosaurus Rex to intimidate English into changing his story (obviously he must have seen it on the webcam seeing as how he doesn't currently live there, but Tyrannosaurus Rex dude!)
 
JoeMorgue said:
Yeah we've already been told how Aberey is still alive in all the alternative timelines where he did this or didn't do this.

They were in a truck. If he had ran... they would have just chased him down. The confrontation was inevitable. It was going to happen. Dude couldn't run forever.
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Chase him down again. He did run away the first time. Fighting may have been his best option at that time. It didn't work out for him, but they already made it clear, he was their target and they weren't going to let him escape. I doubt they would have let him get to the tree-line. He probably tried to make the best choice in a no win situation. Run away again, who knows how much stamina he had left and you aren't going to outrun a truck. He went to fight in a fight or flight situation. I'm not sure I'd have done anything different. Except not go out jogging in the first place.
 
Leftus said:
Chase him down again. He did run away the first time. Fighting may have been his best option at that time. It didn't work out for him, but they already made it clear, he was their target and they weren't going to let him escape. I doubt they would have let him get to the tree-line. He probably tried to make the best choice in a no win situation. Run away again, who knows how much stamina he had left and you aren't going to outrun a truck. He went to fight in a fight or flight situation. I'm not sure I'd have done anything different. Except not go out jogging in the first place.
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Not to mention running would have just made him "more guilty" in the eyes of many.

If he'd ran they would have shot him and we'd be here listening to "Well if he's so innocent why did he run?" or some other variation on same.
 
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Leftus said:
Chase him down again. He did run away the first time. Fighting may have been his best option at that time. It didn't work out for him, but they already made it clear, he was their target and they weren't going to let him escape. I doubt they would have let him get to the tree-line. He probably tried to make the best choice in a no win situation. Run away again, who knows how much stamina he had left and you aren't going to outrun a truck. He went to fight in a fight or flight situation. I'm not sure I'd have done anything different. Except not go out jogging in the first place.
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It's too bad Arbery didn't have a cell phone. I'd like to hear his 911 call: "Two guys with guns are chasing me in a pickup, I'm trying to get away ...."
 
Thermal said:
Don't start. Enough posters lying in the thread.

The people who claimed to recognize Arbery as a regular runner apparently did not accost him, just as the pastors neighbors did not accost the pastor.

The McMichaels and maybe Roddy were the bad actors here. And the DA/investigators, who are even worse. The big societal comment I see in this story is carrying/vigilantis, corrupt good ol' boys, and a heaping side of cowardice and stupidity, not racism.
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And all of his previous runs in the area prove that racism had nothing to do with this either. Obviously if they were racist they would have killed him the first time he ran through the neighborhood.
 
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