Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Matthew Best]

Travis' truck is shown on surveillance video chasing Arbery around. No gun in sight. .

I don't think I've seen that video - can you link it?

 

[Myriad]

To a first approximation, NO serious runners can break a 4 minute mile. And that is even among serious runners.

To be more precise, the number of serious runners that can run that fast is below 1 in a thousand, more likely below 1 in 100K.

For internationally competitive runners, it might be 1%. Those who specialize in that distance are probably 100% at this point able to break the barrier (although the distance is 1500 meters - a 4 min pace is 3:44 at 1500 m; there were 10 runners who could do that in the 2019 NCAA championships; maybe the winners of the 800m or the 5K could pull it off, but certainly not that many; only the best of these go on to be internationally competitive)

This gives us an idea of how many people in the US could pull off a 4 min mile. Considering competitive runners outside of college, we are talking about a couple of dozen.

It's a silly discussion. There are people who can run a 4 min mile. There are more who can get it done in 5 min. For regular runners, 6 min miles are very fast. For running hobbiests, 8 min miles are good. For casual runners, 9 - 10 min miles are typical. For out of shapers like me, I'm happy to be able to run at all for 1 mile.

I need to get back in shape (The Don always makes me feel inadequate)

Has a four-minute mile ever been run on a paved suburban street or sidewalk? Aren't "actual" competitive miles run on dead flat tracks with optimized surfaces, wearing highly specialized shoes?

 

[wareyin]

Travis' truck is shown on surveillance video chasing Arbery around. No gun in sight. You still need to explain where the minimum 3' long shotgun was while he drove the pickup, too. Think a little about steering wheels and stuff.

You don't get to change the subject when you are called on BS. I'll wait.

The surveillance video where you can't even see Travis much less what he's holding? Are you doing that CSI zoom, enhance fictional thing to bolster your argument now?

You may also not know this, but many people are able to drive with one hand on the steering wheel and the other holding something.

Eta: your ever growing shotgun is funny, too. Now it's a minimum of 36 inches? Home defense shotguns typically range from 18 to 22 inches, while sporting shotguns tend to be 26 to 32 inches. Maybe Travis had him a custom gun made for hunting black people?

 

[RolandRat]

That's true, sure. In a legal sense, a non-owner has no right to be on private property belonging to someone else.

On the other hand... there's no situation in which trespassing on a neighbor's property grants license to a non-owner to chase down and kill the trespasser.

So... I'm not really sure why it matters that he was trespassing.

I never said it gave anyone the right to chase down and kill someone for trespassing. I, in fact, made it clear I thought that was wrong.

It just bemused me that a number of people seemed to be ok with just causally wandering another persons property.

 

[Thermal]

The surveillance video where you can't even see Travis much less what he's holding? Are you doing that CSI zoom, enhance fictional thing to bolster your argument now?

You may also not know this, but many people are able to drive with one hand on the steering wheel and the other holding something.

Eta: your ever growing shotgun is funny, too. Now it's a minimum of 36 inches? Home defense shotguns typically range from 18 to 22 inches, while sporting shotguns tend to be 26 to 32 inches. Maybe Travis had him a custom gun made for hunting black people?

Just to cast light on your incessant lying one final time:

No, a slug/carbine barell alone is a minimum 18" to be legal. A typical 12 GA barrel is 28". But that's the barell alone. The shotgun in question had a conventional shoulder stock (not like a riot gun pistol grip only), making its overall length, assuming the shortest legal barell, to be around 36"

But tell you what: post the overall length of a shoulder stocked 12 GA as pictured in the video having an overall length of 18-22 inches per your claim, or a sporting gun being 26-32". Post the specs, easily available online.

Remember: overall length, don't weasel and try to sneak in barrel only length. You're trying to pretend you are familiar with shotguns, based on an uncomprehending Google search.

Do or die, liar.

 

[wareyin]

Just to cast light on your incessant lying one final time:

No, a slug/carbine barell alone is a minimum 18" to be legal. A typical 12 GA barrel is 28". But that's the barell alone. The shotgun in question had a conventional shoulder stock (not like a riot gun pistol grip only), making its overall length, assuming the shortest legal barell, to be around 36"

But tell you what: post the overall length of a shoulder stocked 12 GA as pictured in the video having an overall length of 18-22 inches per your claim, or a sporting gun being 26-32". Post the specs, easily available online.

Remember: overall length, don't weasel and try to sneak in barrel only length. You're trying to pretend you are familiar with shotguns, based on an uncomprehending Google search.

Do or die, liar.

Hey, it's your claim that the gun in question is at least three feet long, I just used Google to double check you. As I obviously needed to after your claims about running times were shown to be absolutely pulled from your nether regions.

And, as we're demanding proof otherwise it's a lie, where's your video showing Travis without a gun in his hand? I'm not letting you change the subject just because you've been caught making stuff up again.

Eta: remember how all this stuff about whether or not Travis was carrying his rifle came about because you claimed that Arbery went for the shotgun immediately. Immediately in this instance apparently meaning "after 8 minutes of being chased". Officials in the case have claimed that Travis was open carrying that shotgun, the shotgun is in his hands as soon as we see Travis, but apparently you think it was in his pocket or something.

 

[Belz...]

Here's you saying "an actual runner can drop a mile in four minutes" and here's you saying "High schoolers are dropping that kind of time nowadays"

I really love how this thread is devolving into complete chaos because one poster is refusing to just admit that they were completely wrong about how fast runners are.

Sheesh.

 

[Belz...]

Yep. And high schoolers are dropping "that kind of time". Not all, and not everywhere, but they are demonstrably doing so.

Name four.

What pisses me off is the dishonest argumentation.

Hey, me too! Shall we run a poll?

Serious runners do run four minute miles.

Ah, but do 'actual' runners do this?

Your argument has become 'as long as I can find a single human who can do X, humans can do X' and it's very entertaining.

But it doesn't matter in context.

If it doesn't matter then why not just admit that you were wrong? Seems to matter.

 

[Belz...]

Has a four-minute mile ever been run on a paved suburban street or sidewalk? Aren't "actual" competitive miles run on dead flat tracks with optimized surfaces, wearing highly specialized shoes?

In my 20s I could walk at about 8kph. That's pretty fast, and I can't do that anymore. A coworker of mine in those days refused to believe me. Apparently I could not possibly be correct even though the only way I could mention kph is if I knew both the distance traveled and the time. According to him, olympic dash runners do 20kph (it's actually double that) but I didn't have the energy to debate at the time. I kind of regret not doing it.

 

[pgwenthold]

Name four.

As I mentioned above, there were 10 college athletes who ran 1500 m at a 4 min mile pace in the NCAA championships in 2019.

There might be 4 high schoolers in the country. Maybe.

 

[Belz...]

As I mentioned above, there were 10 college athletes who ran 1500 m at a 4 min mile pace in the NCAA championships in 2019.

There might be 4 high schoolers in the country. Maybe.

Ssshhhh.. Don't help her.

 

[pgwenthold]

My 6th grade son just got home from school, and said he ran a mile in 13:30 today.

Then again, he ran it going backwards.

 

[lobosrul5]

To a first approximation, NO serious runners can break a 4 minute mile. And that is even among serious runners.

To be more precise, the number of serious runners that can run that fast is below 1 in a thousand, more likely below 1 in 100K.

For internationally competitive runners, it might be 1%. Those who specialize in that distance are probably 100% at this point able to break the barrier (although the distance is 1500 meters - a 4 min pace is 3:44 at 1500 m; there were 10 runners who could do that in the 2019 NCAA championships; maybe the winners of the 800m or the 5K could pull it off, but certainly not that many; only the best of these go on to be internationally competitive)

This gives us an idea of how many people in the US could pull off a 4 min mile. Considering competitive runners outside of college, we are talking about a couple of dozen.

It's a silly discussion. There are people who can run a 4 min mile. There are more who can get it done in 5 min. For regular runners, 6 min miles are very fast. For running hobbiests, 8 min miles are good. For casual runners, 9 - 10 min miles are typical. For out of shapers like me, I'm happy to be able to run at all for 1 mile.

I need to get back in shape (The Don always makes me feel inadequate)

I do a jog/walk route of 3 miles, where if I feel up to it, I can do it in 30 minutes so an average of 10 minute miles. However, I'm tall and I can walk at a 14 minute a mile pace. I cannot run a mile without stopping for at least 2 breaks (at 5600 feet in elevation though, so maybe at sea level I could?).

I've gotta say I've lost the plot of this thread. If Arbery could do a 4 minute mile or 6 minute mile... what difference does it make. And yeah like .0001% of the population can do a 4 minute mile and thats on a track not dodging rednecks in trucks on uneven roads etc.

 

[smartcooky]

Only twelve high school students have ever run under four minutes for a mile... the first was in 1965.

Twelve in 56 years. so saying that high school students are dropping sub fours all the time is being somewhat economical with the truth

 

[Thermal]

Hey, it's your claim that the gun in question is at least three feet long, I just used Google to double check you.

And how did I do, pray tell, versus the alternative claim that the guns overall length could be 18"? Hint: one of us spoke truth (who has owned 12GAs since he was a teen), and one googled blindly and ****** it up. You are intellectually siding with the latter, btw.

I obviously needed to after your claims about running times were shown to be absolutely pulled from your nether regions.

Challenge time! My statement was that a runner can do a mile in 4 mins. Is that statement factually true or false? Hint: it has already been posted by many that it is demonstrably true. No adding adjectives to the statement, btw (sub, all, any, etc).

Additionally, I have conceded the point anyway repeatedly... to the very same posters who agree that it is factually true. Mostly to move along, as you and yours clearly won't.

But hey, yet again: no runners, especially serious or actual ones, nor high schoolers, can run a four minute mile. This is despite the fact that several here post that it is absolutely true.

Since you evidently require repeated retractions: Mentioning the 4 min mile was intended to make the reader consider for a moment how fast and far Arbery would have travelled in 8 mins. However, as it confused posters so horribly, the comparison was happily retracted and a substitution of a 5 or six minute mile offered, as the point is the same.

I anxiously await the astute intellectual challenge to a six minute mile being factually possible, next.

And, as we're demanding proof otherwise it's a lie, where's your video showing Travis without a gun in his hand? I'm not letting you change the subject just because you've been caught making stuff up again.

Oh, no you don't. The claim of the guns being out "the whole time" was first, and challenged factually. You don't get to shift the burden on me to prove it one way or the other.

Btw, you are factually untrue in claiming I said there was video showing Travis without a gun. I said his truck is briefly captured on video, and no gun is visible. I don't know how else you could show a three foot long shotgun with a steering wheel in front of you, but we'll get there if you like. But we'll do claims in order.

Eta: remember how all this stuff about whether or not Travis was carrying his rifle came about because you claimed that Arbery went for the shotgun immediately. Immediately in this instance apparently meaning "after 8 minutes of being chased". Officials in the case have claimed that Travis was open carrying that shotgun, the shotgun is in his hands as soon as we see Travis, but apparently you think it was in his pocket or something.

No, and no idea why you would think such a silly thing. The gun is about 3 feet long, and Travis was driving. I'm saying it must have been on the floor, or behind the seat, or somewhere else out of sight.

Disagree?

 

[dirtywick]

When I was in the army, I was running a 14 minute 2 mile. I could run the first in 6 minutes, but the 2nd took 8 because I couldn't keep the pace that long, and I was a heavy smoker. There was plenty of guys that could run sub 6 minute miles.

But there's a huge difference between 6 minutes and 4 minutes. You have to book it pretty hard to run a 5 minute mile, it's very fast.

 

[Thermal]

Ssshhhh.. Don't help her.

You're dropping to pure childish ****, now. I'm out.

 

[wareyin]

Challenge time! My statement was that a runner can do a mile in 4 mins. Is that statement factually true or false? Hint: it has already been posted by many that it is demonstrably true. No adding adjectives to the statement, btw (sub, all, any, etc).

Of course some very few humans have run a four minute mile. This has been pointed out to you over and over. The fact that a small number of people have been able to do it only goes to show your pretence that it was common, (high schoolers are doing it) or expected of "actual" runners was false.

Additionally, I have conceded the point anyway repeatedly... to the very same posters who agree that it is factually true. Mostly to move along, as you and yours clearly won't.

But hey, yet again: no runners, especially serious or actual ones, nor high schoolers, can run a four minute mile. This is despite the fact that several here post that it is absolutely true.

See, you claim you've conceded the point but then go on to sarcastically make an opposite but equally untrue claim instead. This shows you haven't actually conceded the point.

Just admit you were wrong. It's ok, I won't think less of you. Really.

Since you evidently require repeated retractions: Mentioning the 4 min mile was intended to make the reader consider for a moment how fast and far Arbery would have travelled in 8 mins. However, as it confused posters so horribly, the comparison was happily retracted and a substitution of a 5 or six minute mile offered, as the point is the same.

I anxiously await the astute intellectual challenge to a six minute mile being factually possible, next.

How generous of you. Now Arbery only has to be a very fast runner rather than an elite runner. Still, you don't really have any idea how far he ran, as we know that he was doubling back within your estimate of a couple of football fields.

Oh, no you don't. The claim of the guns being out "the whole time" was first, and challenged factually. You don't get to shift the burden on me to prove it one way or the other.

Oh, yes I do. The claim of guns being out the whole time was made in response to your claim that Arbery went for the gun immediately. After an 8 minute chase in which the DA said the damn guns were being open carried. So yeah, if you're going to dispute the facts as we know them, the burden of proof is on you.

Btw, you are factually untrue in claiming I said there was video showing Travis without a gun. I said his truck is briefly captured on video, and no gun is visible. I don't know how else you could show a three foot long shotgun with a steering wheel in front of you, but we'll get there if you like. But we'll do claims in order.

You claimed that video of the truck without the shotgun hanging out the window was proof Travis wasn't holding his gun. First, link the video so we can see whether this is yet another of your bogus claims. I'm curious if your video is even showing the driver's side. Then we can examine your evidence to see how well it lines up with the DA's claims that you're disputing.

No, and no idea why you would think such a silly thing. The gun is about 3 feet long, and Travis was driving. I'm saying it must have been on the floor, or behind the seat, or somewhere else out of sight.

Disagree?

Of course I disagree. Open carry is the opposite of concealed behind the seat. The DA said it was open carry. You're going to have to come up with a valid reason to believe your claim, especially having been caught bs'ing your way through so much of this discussion.

 

[Meadmaker]

I'm always amazed at what tangents can come up.


I've forgotten what the original point was, but I suspect that "4 minute mile" was just a generic statement of "very fast".

 

[Belz...]

You're dropping to pure childish ****, now. I'm out.

Honestly I have no idea why I used "her" instead of "him". Maybe I got mixed with another thread. Vixen's, maybe?

But your reaction is so completely disproportionate that it was all worth that error. In fact I don't even know your gender; I just assume you're a "he". Do you go into tantrums when someone mistakes you for a woman over the phone? Happened to me a couple of times.