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JFK assassination debate

Gawdzilla said:
I was stationed in Italy (NAF Sigonella, Sicily) for three years. The good people there were highly miffed that Americans were slamming their rifle. They demonstrated to me that it was indeed a good piece. And standing next to an angrey Sicilian with a gun, I loudly and repeatedly agreed.
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The problem with the Carcano was not with the rifle per se, but with the crappy cartridge that was used by the Italian Army in WW2. With a better cartridge, the Carcano is a decent rifle..and Oswald used a better cartridge.
 
Simplicissimus said:
What do you think of

1. Eyewitness accounts of a man with glasses at the sixth floor
2. Eyewitness accounts of Oswald escaping in a in a station wagon driven by a dark- complexioned man
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I think the eye witness accounts are a piece of crap.
 
Since you use the word "accounts" that implies multiple witnesses seeing these things. I don't recall such multiple witness accounts in the Warren Report, and would be interested in your sources.

However, I DO know that there were witnesses who identified Oswald as the shooter (without glasses). And of course there is plenty of solid evidence above and beyond any eyewitnesses to the shooting that Oswald made his escape first via a city bus and then a taxicab.
 
Simplicissimus said:
As I am new to this forum I still cannot post links to these eyewitness accounts
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You can post links if you leave gaps in the address so the online thingy here doesn't see it as a link.
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Such as....
h ttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Any person can remove the space between the h and the t and have a viable link after pasting in the address line on the browser.
Try it.
 
Last edited:
thank you very much. As i have other things to at the moment, i can only give you an overview on the car driven by a dark- complected man (not dark- complexioned, my mother is not English).

youtube.c om/user/HelmerR eenberg#p/c/C3508F37D1866E43/9/IDl5pD JrMV4
 
As I am busy, her is an overview on the station wagon and the dark- complected man
ww w.yout ube.c om /use r/Helm er Reenberg#p/c/C350 8F3 7D186 6E4 3/9/IDl5 pDJ rMV4
 
As I am busy, her is an overview on the station wagon and the dark- complected man
ww w.yout ube.c om /use r/Helm er Reenberg#p/c/C350 8F3 7D186 6E4 3/9/IDl5 pDJ rMV4
 
Gawdzilla said:
Shiva protect me from Youtube evidence.
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You are so right. I had never watched any of these regarding JFK before. Unbelievable. Grainy video stills which "prove" whatever the video poster says it does. Captions that say you can see "clearly" something that you can't see ... clearly. That was awful.
 
Okay,
i have found a qualified source with eyewitnesses:

Richard Carr:

"... After the shooting Carr saw the man emerge from the building. Carr followed the man and later told the FBI: "This man, walking very fast, proceeded on Houston Street south to Commerce Street to Record Street. The man got into a 1961 or 1962 gray Rambler station wagon which was parked just north of Commerce Street on Record Street." This evidence corroborated those claims made by Roger Craig. Both Carr and Craig described the driver of the car as being dark-skinned... "

Staff Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations (March 1979)

"... Carr was not called to testify before the Warren Commission. He did testify on February 19, 1969 in the Parish County Criminal District Court in New Orleans in State of Louisiana v. Clay L. Shaw... Carr was asked during the Shaw trial if he noticed any movement after the shots which seemed "unusual." (110) Carr then said that he saw a Rambler station wagon with a rack on top parked on the wrong side of the street, heading north and facing in the direction of the railroad tracks, next to the depository. (111)

Carr said that immediately after the shots he saw three men emerge from behind the depository and enter the station wagon. (112) He gave a description of one of them: he was "real dark-complected" and appeared to be Spanish or Cuban; he drove the car away, going north on Houston Street. (113)

/w w.spa rt acus.scho olne t.co.uk/J FKcarrRht m



Michael Kurtz, Crime of the Century: The Kennedy Assassination From a Historians Perspective (1982)

"Mrs. James Forrest was standing in a group of people who had gathered on the incline near the Grassy Knoll. As she was standing, she saw a man suddenly run from the rear of the Depository building, down the incline, and then enter a Rambler station wagon. The man she saw running down and entering the station wagon strongly resembled Lee Harvey Oswald. "If it wasn't Oswald," Mrs. Forrest has declared, "it was his identical twin." The testimony of Walther, Worrel, Carr, Robinson, and Forrest all provide strong substantiation for Roger Craig's story..."

"... Marvin Robinson was driving his car west on Elm Street about fifteen minutes after the shooting. He saw a man come down the grassy incline and enter a Rambler station wagon, which then drove away..."


And finally, Roger Craig´s testimony, identifiying Oswald as the man running to the station wagon

htt p://ww w.spa rtac us.sch oolnet.co .uk/JF Kcr aigR.htm
 
Simplicissimus, you know eyewitness testimony is the bottom of the food chain in a court, don't you? The man's statement above doesn't describe the person, and the lady already knew about LHO when she made that statement, and is thus a tainted witness.
 
2 Days ago there was a documentary about the JFK assassination in German television. They mentioned something along the line that the Secret Service cleaned up the Limousine at the Hospital, thus destroying a lot of evidence. My question is: Who the **** ordered that clean up and for what downright stupid reason?
 
Oliver said:
2 Days ago there was a documentary about the JFK assassination in German television. They mentioned something along the line that the Secret Service cleaned up the Limousine at the Hospital, thus destroying a lot of evidence. My question is: Who the **** ordered that clean up and for what downright stupid reason?
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My first question would be "have you confirmed this information"?
 
Gawdzilla said:
My first question would be "have you confirmed this information"?
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I wasn't there - but at least the "bucket of soapy water" was captured by some photographers:

Someone cleaning up JFK's Limousine:
http://www.timesunion.com/photogalleries/jfk/12.jpg

12:45 JEH phones RFK to tell him his brother has been assassinated. NBC interrupts regular programming to announce that JFK and Governor Connally have been injured in a shooting. Kinney and Hickey put bubbletop on 100X. Apparently, they request a bucket of water, as one it brought for them and is visible in a Stoughton photo. The benign explanation is that the water was used to clear debris from the cowl of the back seat and, the center partition area and the chrome molding around the windshield, in order for the clamps used with the plexiglass roof to take hold. A more malign explanation is that the trunk area was also washed of debris. One way or another, evidence was destroyed by this act. Putting the roof up, and adding the leatherette cover, takes between 20-30 minutes. Hurschel Jacks -- Texas State Highway Policeman is assigned by the SS to prevent photos being taken of 100X, exterior or interior.
 
Dave Rogers said:
So how exactly does that not answer your own question?

Dave
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My question is: Why would anyone in his right mind allow to clean up a crime scene, which the Limousine was at the time, no matter what?
 
@Gawdzilla:

"Simplicissimus, you know eyewitness testimony is the bottom of the food chain in a court, don't you? The man's statement above doesn't describe the person, and the lady already knew about LHO when she made that statement, and is thus a tainted witness."



Thus the eyewitnesses who identified Oswald as the Tippit murderer and Kennedy assassin should not be taken that seriously as "eyewitness testimony is the bottom of the food chain in a court". THOSE witnesses could also have been "tainted" by the "Oswald- did- it- alone"- mantra when they testified to the Warren Commission,
 
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