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It's time for a Ted Cruz thread.

Ladewig said:
I am not sure I agree with you.

What evidence do you present that the party is ejecting religious fundamentalists? The party doesn't seem to be rejecting Ted Cruz.

Every candidate, including Trump, felt the need to kowtow to the religious folks at Liberty University.
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I don't see any ejection/rejection going on now. A massive defeat of Cruz in December could lead to it four years from now. A massive defeat of Trump, not so much. In fact, it might strengthen the evangelical wing, because he'll be seen for what he is, a fake Christian and fake conservative.
 
More religious lunacy from Daddy Cruz:
"Ted is running for president to share the love of Jesus Christ with every person in America". By force, if necessary, I think.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...-share-love-jesus-christ-every-person-america

"People Are Persecuting My Son Because He’s Telling The Truth, Just Like Jesus"
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...-my-son-because-he-s-telling-truth-just-jesus

Then there's his fervent supporter, Phil Robinson:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/phil-robertson-rid-earth-gay-marriage-supporters

Nominating Cruz for President would be the biggest disaster for the Republican party since 1964. I hope he gets it.
 
Denver said:
Some of the party certainly is not. As part of the ejection from the mainline, we are seeing a split: for some candidates, the defense mechanisms of that religious meme will exert themselves more and more (as they always do when threatened). Cruz is an example of that part.

As it becomes evident that the candidates who continue to embrace fundamentalism as a core of their platform do less and less well in the outcomes, I predict we'll start seeing two things: First, more candidates will pull back from that stance, do well, attract others, and further the split (Trump may lead the way here);
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I wish I could share your optimism.

As it stands, there are only two political principles that I believe in. (1) the Democrats will never run out of ways to lose elections. (2) The Republicans never learn from their mistakes.

As for Trump leading the split, I say that it is impossible to predict at this point. I agree that Trump is leading a split, but I say it is impossible to say whether it is the Trump-lovers or the Trump-haters that represent mainline Republicanism. It is possible that Trump is the renegade splinter group and the religious zealots maintain (at least one hand on) the party's reins. If that is the case then there will be deafening cries of "we must return the party to our Founding Fathers' religious principles. God Bless America harder and longer than we've ever been blessed before*"

While both parties may continue to kowtow at some level to anyone with a pocket book, the stress on being the party, or even the nation, of the bible has already been dropping at least the last generation. It seems only probable that the successful candidates would reflect that.
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except that the Republican base contains almost none of the young a-religious people you mention. Furthermore whatever young Republicans there are, they have virtually no say in how much the party will spoon with the religious fundamentalists.

Summation: I want the Republicans to do all the things you describe, I am just not sure that the process has really begun. Let's talk again in 60 days.

.........
* I am not saying the country was founded by narrow-minded religious fundamentalists, I am merely pointing out that the Republican Party may end up rallying behind that belief.
.
 
Trebuchet said:
ore religious lunacy from Daddy Cruz:
"Ted is running for president to share the love of Jesus Christ with every person in America". By force, if necessary, I think.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...-share-love-jesus-christ-every-person-america

"People Are Persecuting My Son Because He’s Telling The Truth, Just Like Jesus"
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...-my-son-because-he-s-telling-truth-just-jesus

Then there's his fervent supporter, Phil Robinson:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/phil-robertson-rid-earth-gay-marriage-supporters-
Click to expand...

From link:
In an interview with Fox News, also on Sunday, Robertson said "blah, blah, blah, unapologetic bigotry, blah, blah...."​

WTF?
Robertson is one of the stars of "Duck Dynasty."

This station is interviewing an ignorant hillbilly on his opinions about a presidential primary. I have not one jot, not one tittle of sympathy for the Republican Party's dilemma. If the conservatives do not rise up in protest when their "news" station pretends that a reality-TV star's opinion is important enough to air, then they, themselves, are responsible for the idiocy of their current primary.

They have sown dim-wittedness and now they reap profound stupidity.
 
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Ladewig said:
I wish I could share your optimism.

As it stands, there are only two political principles that I believe in. (1) the Democrats will never run out of ways to lose elections. (2) The Republicans never learn from their mistakes.
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That may be our ultimate point of disagreement. I just see them both full of people who can do smart things, who can be stupid, who can change (and sometimes do without even knowing it), and who will eventually be replaced. Institutional momentum may be more sluggish to change but I think it is inevitable if an institution is to survive a changing environment.

Ladewig said:
As for Trump leading the split, I say that it is impossible to predict at this point. I agree that Trump is leading a split, but I say it is impossible to say whether it is the Trump-lovers or the Trump-haters that represent mainline Republicanism. It is possible that Trump is the renegade splinter group and the religious zealots maintain (at least one hand on) the party's reins. If that is the case then there will be deafening cries of "we must return the party to our Founding Fathers' religious principles. God Bless America harder and longer than we've ever been blessed before*"
Click to expand...

I think at the moment he is leading the split, as far as any one person can. But it will take more than a single person, and it will take time. I am just thinking I see the wedge deepening with him as an obvious pressure point. And I bet we'll be seeing just what you said: louder and more aggressive resistance to change.

But as for the split: my opinion is that the GOP took in fundamentalism as a platform, and it will eventually let it go. So I am predicting it to be more of a change than a split. But I agree this could become a split, depending on how that proceeds.

Ladewig said:
except that the Republican base contains almost none of the young a-religious people you mention. Furthermore whatever young Republicans there are, they have virtually no say in how much the party will spoon with the religious fundamentalists.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean a-religious. I meant less-fundamentalist. Religion is not going anywhere soon, for any party.

Ladewig said:
Summation: I want the Republicans to do all the things you describe, I am just not sure that the process has really begun. Let's talk again in 60 days.
Click to expand...

Sure, 60 days. A year. A generation. I don't expect it to happen fast. But I think it will happen inevitably, and the signs, to me, are becoming more apparent.
 
I just saw Ted Cruz' campaign manager interviewed on PBS. He was talking about after New Hampshire, when the primaries will be held in states with a huge evangelical population -- he said in some it's close to 50% (I don't know if he meant in general or just among Republicans) -- and the thinking is Cruz (and Rubio) will have an opportunity to roll up a lot of support. It's like the politics of the Middle East has come to the U.S.

The way this Republican primary is breaking along religious lines is one of the scariest and most discouraging developments I've ever seen.

Bring back Romney and Bush! :(
 
CNN had some RNC bigwig on and they asked him about Cruz's sleazy campaign tactics. All he could respond with was "OMG, the Democrats had a coin toss! A COIN TOSS! COIN TOSS!"
 
Trebuchet said:
All he could respond with was "OMG, the Democrats had a coin toss! A COIN TOSS! COIN TOSS!"
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Try as I may, I cannot bring myself to believe that such behavior is a signpost on the road to "making America great."
 
I'd guess that Republican caucus rules also called for a coin toss in case of a tie. It's just that the tie was less likely because of the multitude of candidates. It's not uncommon for small-town municipal elections to be decided by a coin toss after a tie.
 
I had to go back and look at that chart again and it took me a long moment to realize it's the number of evaluations with percentage in parentheses.

I believe there's a word for the belief that it's ok to lie if you do it for the benefit of God. Anybody know what that is?
 
Trebuchet said:
I had to go back and look at that chart again and it took me a long moment to realize it's the number of evaluations with percentage in parentheses.

I believe there's a word for the belief that it's ok to lie if you do it for the benefit of God. Anybody know what that is?
Click to expand...

Lying for Jesus? Virtuous lie?
 
Trebuchet said:
I had to go back and look at that chart again and it took me a long moment to realize it's the number of evaluations with percentage in parentheses.

I believe there's a word for the belief that it's ok to lie if you do it for the benefit of God. Anybody know what that is?
Click to expand...

TubbaBlubba said:
Lying for Jesus? Virtuous lie?
Click to expand...

I may actually be thinking of an Islamic thing. I'm not even sure what to google.

ETA: Righteous Lie, I guess. Lots of hits for that on Google. Quite a few of them from creationist organizations, which I find amusing.
 
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