It's Homeopathy Awareness Week!

Sarah-I said:
As for mythical energy. It is not mythical at all. It is there and exists in all of us. You just need to be sensitive and receptive enough to be able to access it. It is blatantly obvious that you are not.
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BEN: Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
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BEN: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.
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It is blatantly obvious that Sarah-I is a Jedi. And that if SW had never been made, these quacks would have no concept of energy.
 
Let's just hope that she doesn't start quoting Obi-Wan's "From a certain point of view" subjectivist fallacy.
 
Mojo,

Why it concerns you in the slightest, I have not the faintest idea, but I am a Buddhist.
 
Sarah, you still haven't addressed why you so arrogantly think that you can't be fooled by your own senses. So much so, that you wager people's health on it.

You keep saying 'try it for yourself'. But the thing is, I know how the senses (and perception) works, and I know I, or anybody for that matter, can be fooled. I would never entrust somebody's health to my senses alone, and I worked in pathology.

Athon
 
athon said:
I would never entrust somebody's health to my senses alone, and I worked in pathology.
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Pathologists' motto: "I see dead people" :)

Surely you should have learned to trust your Sixth Sense.

I'm sorry. I'll get my coat.
 
Asolepius said:
Go to PubMed and enter `craniosacral therapy'. There are 22 citations. Now tell me how many of these report randomised controlled clinical trials showing a positive outcome in favour of CST. Then tell me how many report that therapists are unable to detect what they claim to detect, when they are tested under controlled conditions. So there is evidence in a CST journal (not indexed on PubMed)? Surprise, surprise.
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So, 5 days have passed since that post and NHCoraHSarah has told us she's a Buddhist. She's had a lovely massage and did some Tai Chi. She's told us about energy.

But sadly she just hasn't managed to find the time to say anything useful about her current favourite flavour of woo or explain how she realised homeopathy is such a busted flush that she's better off rubbing people's scalps for more effect.

Is it the misplaced self-righteousness or the carefully evasive cowardice that makes these advocates of alt. med. so nauseating?
 
Sarah-I said:
Hans,

It is NOT massage, as we do not use massage techniques as massage therapists do.

I agree, it is not even massage. Calling it massage was to generous of me, I do apologize.

I have undertaken some simple research where myself and another practitioner were separated by a screen and could not see each other. I was at the sacrum and she was at the head and we had to press a foot pedal to indicate when we felt certain things in the body and there was a concensus rating in the 90's.

Yawn. "Certain things"? "in the 90's"? Do you happen to have a protocol? Do you happen to have a published report?

... I thought not :nope:.

Oh Hans, why don't you stick to your debate with bach over at otherhealth. Is the heat getting too much for you? Seems to me as if he has the upper hand at present!!!

Bach :roll:. Have you noticed how he gets vague and incoherent, in a surprisingly Kumarese way, every time he is into a corner? Now, I consider Bach a fairly sensible lerson, so I'm at the moment handling him with velvet gloves, lest he explode into his usual endless ad hominem tirades. Won't last long, I predict, since there is no way of hiding that his position is logically corrupt.

For your information, it is the College of Cranio-Sacral Therapy www.ccst.co.uk

So what? Should I be impressed because they call themselves a college?

Why don't you go to the website and click under articles and read the article on Fascial Unwinding that has been written in two parts by Thomas Attlee himself.

Thomas who? :rolleyes:
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Hans
 
Sarah-I said:
I worked as a nurse for about 20 years and worked in such specialities as HDU and renal. During my time as a nurse I have conducted research and critically appraised it too.
*snip*
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You appraised research? Then let me suggest you go over the research for your head rubs as thoroughly as you would if you were trying to DISPROVE its effectiveness. Rip it to shreds.

Science doesn't mollycoddle, as someone's sig here(sorry, forget who) points out. Step back and take an objective look. Perhaps you've let your beliefs lead you into a conclusion. Everyone gets fooled. There's no shame.

As for the energy, again, what instrument measures it and in how many Joules? Is it a simple instrument? One that can be built by say....a motivated electronics engineer..*nudges MRC_Hans(or Donks)*

As it stands, I have to admit I'm very unclear on exactly WHAT it is you're talking about. Cellular memory? Which part of the cell has logic gates? And why aren't we using such things in our technology? If we cloned someone, would they have the same set of memories as the original? That would be SOME breakthrough. We could clone Einstein or Oppenheimer and let them continue their work!

But once again, it's all very fuzzy. Perhaps we could achieve an understanding if the information were a bit clearer.


(I'm trying and hoping, guys...)
 
Badly Shaved Monkey said:
So, 5 days have passed since that post and NHCoraHSarah has told us she's a Buddhist. She's had a lovely massage and did some Tai Chi. She's told us about energy.
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She's mentioned the word 'energy' - but I can't see anywhere that she has actually told us anything about energy.

Like what she thinks it is, or how it is measured.
 
Didn't you have a different avatar..a monkey, or something..?


Huntsman...I'll remember it for the future..thanks!


(the switching of avatars really screws with my memory at times..I have a hard enough time remembering people's names IRL!!)
 
clarsct said:
Didn't you have a different avatar..a monkey, or something..?


Huntsman...I'll remember it for the future..thanks!


(the switching of avatars really screws with my memory at times..I have a hard enough time remembering people's names IRL!!)
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I change avatars fairly regularly :)

My last one was a wizard with a spider's head. My current one is a picture of me in Kuwait, sitting in a vehicle I'm about to take back into western Iraq to the unit. We were heading out on a convoy at the time :)
 
Huntsman said:
I change avatars fairly regularly :)

My last one was a wizard with a spider's head. My current one is a picture of me in Kuwait, sitting in a vehicle I'm about to take back into western Iraq to the unit. We were heading out on a convoy at the time :)
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I think, you have the same habit as Dr. MAS has, he and his colleagues regularly change avatars in homeopathic forums. I don't know about this forum.
 
athon said:
Sarah, you still haven't addressed why you so arrogantly think that you can't be fooled by your own senses. So much so, that you wager people's health on it.

You keep saying 'try it for yourself'. But the thing is, I know how the senses (and perception) works, and I know I, or anybody for that matter, can be fooled. I would never entrust somebody's health to my senses alone, and I worked in pathology.

Athon
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Stupidly, I'm still curious.

Not holding my breath for an answer, though.

Athon
 
Sarah-I said:
I may be many things, but arrogant is definitely not one of them.

I use my hands to feel things just like any other craniosacral therapist out there in practice.

www.craniosacral.co.uk
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You are still not getting this are you? Do you know the difference between subjective and objective evidence? Asserting that you can detect things which can't be demonstrated objectively is dangerously close to arrogance.
 
Sarah-I said:
I may be many things, but arrogant is definitely not one of them.

I use my hands to feel things just like any other craniosacral therapist out there in practice.

www.craniosacral.co.uk
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Then why, pray tell, is it so difficult to get a bunch of craniosacral therapists together and consistently demonstrate this "talent" under blinded conditions? It has already been tried, and the results are the same every time... they just can't do it. They can't agree on what they're "feeling". If CS were reality, this should not be the case. They would agree on the locations of the "restrictions", the rate of the CS "pulse", etc...

They just plain can't.

Logical conclusion: It's all in their heads.

Illogical conclusion: It works because I say it does.
 
Upledger and Karni have done this research Les.

I would not expect them to agree 100 per cent of the time. This takes account of individuality of people. You will get a different treatment from every practitioner that you go and see and this is because your two systems come together at differently.

When I was in our student clinic, there were three students and one tutor and we were invited to join in the treatment, so this meant that there could be up to three of us working on one client. We were mostly in general agreement about the patterns that we were all feeling and easily linked it back to the same place.
 
Sarah-I said:
Upledger and Karni have done this research Les.

I would not expect them to agree 100 per cent of the time. This takes account of individuality of people. You will get a different treatment from every practitioner that you go and see and this is because your two systems come together at differently.

When I was in our student clinic, there were three students and one tutor and we were invited to join in the treatment, so this meant that there could be up to three of us working on one client. We were mostly in general agreement about the patterns that we were all feeling and easily linked it back to the same place.
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I'm not sure to whom you are replying here. I know we are not going to change the way you think, because your belief is based on subjective `feelings' and mine is based on a completely different paradigm. In fact I don't really `believe' anything in the way you do. I just find it pragmatic to make decisions based on the weight of evidence. I have learned that my own senses can mislead me grossly, and that I am far better off looking at experiments that attempt to exclude such observer bias. This is what science is. It is the discipline that has built the developed world we live in, and it works. Tell me what significant public health advances have ever been made by CST or homeopathy, and then I'll tell you that science made smallpox an historical disease.

No, you really don't get it. Your anecdote about 3 of you agreeing you felt the same thing cruelly exposes your thought processes. What controls were there against any one of you influencing the others? Was there a sham control group? I could go on but won't - but why don't you read about proper medical research? Look up books by Stuart Pocock or John Vogel. I'll wager the `research' you cite is not mentioned by either.
 
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