It was weird to be a pro-war Liberal

[DC]

You don't criticize other cultures?

You wouldn't criticize womens rights in Saudi Arabia, or gay people being hanged in Iran? It's just what they prefer, right?

between crizising and forcing your way of life on someone else are two different things.

the mullahs forcing their way of life on Iranians is just as wrong as anyone else forcing their way of life on Iranians.

and nobody is forcing Saudi Arabia to respect Woman rights as we see them.
we are doing great bussines with the rulers of Saudi Arabia. so i dont really see your point.
It seems to be OK for Saudi "Roalys" to force their way on the Saudis.

 

[DC]

Chinese rule was indeed an improvement for a time.

But now China should leave (just as British rule brought some benefits to India but after a while it was clearly time for Britain to leave)

so it was OK for China to do it?

 

[Virus]

and we dont care about corrupt and brutal thugs dictating countries as long they don't have something we want.

America didn't get any oil from Iraq.

Your propaganda has past its use-by date.

 

[Giz]

so it was OK for China to do it?

Do you know what Tibet was like pre-Chinese invasion?

You know what else… this will blow your mind… I was also OK when Vietnam kicked out Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge out of power in Cambodia.

 

[Giz]

between crizising and forcing your way of life on someone else are two different things.

That was a response to your: "well surely i love our way of life . but i do not expect to everyone wanting to live that way. others prefer another way of life. just because i believe our way is superior does not make it objectively superior.
its a question like, what is objectively the nicer color, blue or red? "

But now you say that criticizing other cultures/countries is OK?

 

[DC]

Do you know what Tibet was like pre-Chinese invasion?

You know what else… this will blow your mind… I was also OK when Vietnam kicked out Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge out of power in Cambodia.

there are many things i think are wrong in Britain, but somehow its not ok for us to force you to change it, but its ok for you to force other to change what you want to be changed.

that sounds like taliban logic to me. they also cry us a river how the US forced their way on arabs and while they cry they are forcing others to life like they want it.

for them its also ok when they do it but not when others do it.

 

[DC]

America didn't get any oil from Iraq.

Your propaganda has past its use-by date.

ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

 

[Giz]

there are many things i think are wrong in Britain, but somehow its not ok for us to force you to change it, but its ok for you to force other to change what you want to be changed.

that sounds like taliban logic to me. they also cry us a river how the US forced their way on arabs and while they cry they are forcing others to life like they want it.

for them its also ok when they do it but not when others do it.

What part of "it's generally immoral to use force against democracies" did you not understand?

I am talking about Pol Pot's Cambodia, Pre-Chinese invasion Tibet, Aztecs, etc and you are talking about advanced democratic societies.

Once again… the issue is not whether:
1) Is it often immoral to impose your values on other countries?
Or,
2) Is it sometimes immoral to impose your values on other countries?

But:

3) Is it always immoral to impose your values on other countries?



Here's a hint (1) and (2) are answered "yes", but (3) is answered "no". You have done a great job of trying to address questions (1) and (2) - which were never asked - but you have desperately avoided going anywhere near responding to (3).

 

[DC]

What part of "it's generally immoral to use force against democracies" did you not understand?

I am talking about Pol Pot's Cambodia, Pre-Chinese invasion Tibet, Aztecs, etc and you are talking about advanced democratic societies.

Once again… the issue is not whether:
1) Is it often immoral to impose your values on other countries?
Or,
2) Is it sometimes immoral to impose your values on other countries?

But:

3) Is it always immoral to impose your values on other countries?



Here's a hint (1) and (2) are answered "yes", but (3) is answered "no". You have done a great job of trying to address questions (1) and (2) - which were never asked - but you have desperately avoided going anywhere near responding to (3).

democracy? they not even allowed to elect their head of state.


it is always immoral to force your values on other countries

 

[DC]

That was a response to your: "well surely i love our way of life . but i do not expect to everyone wanting to live that way. others prefer another way of life. just because i believe our way is superior does not make it objectively superior.
its a question like, what is objectively the nicer color, blue or red? "

But now you say that criticizing other cultures/countries is OK?

yes critizising is OK why do you ask?

 

[Giz]

yes critizising is OK why do you ask?

So you changed you mind, after saying:

well surely i love our way of life . but i do not expect to everyone wanting to live that way. others prefer another way of life. just because i believe our way is superior does not make it objectively superior.
its a question like, what is objectively the nicer color, blue or red?

But now you agree we can say, one way is better than another?

 

[Giz]

it is always immoral to force your values on other countries

Even if you are replacing a Pol Pot type figure? No exceptions?

 

[Virus]

ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Shock horror. How dare America purchase oil. The outrage.

 

[DC]

So you changed you mind, after saying:




But now you agree we can say, one way is better than another?

oh in that case we are merely using different interpretations of the word critizizing.
i think its ok to say, Listen Abdullah, its totally sexist and totally irrational to not let woman drive.

I think it would even be OK to say, Listen Abdullah, as long you dont change your human rights record we will not do bussines with you anymore, bye bye.

but Invading SA and forcing the people to live the way you think it is fine?
no that a step to far.

 

[DC]

Even if you are replacing a Pol Pot type figure? No exceptions?

yes, if you go remove the Dictator and let then local people vote on a constitution and a new government. OK, but you dont force your way on them. let them self determine their way of life.

 

[Virus]

yes, if you go remove the Dictator and let then local people vote on a constitution and a new government. OK, but you dont force your way on them. let them self determine their way of life.

Some people's way of life is poverty, civil war, corruption, incompetent rule, violence, vote rigging and fraud.

 

[DC]

Some people's way of life is poverty, civil war, corruption, incompetent rule, violence, vote rigging and fraud.

yes but not only among our politicans.

 

[bikerdruid]

Rome:

Paved roads
Fresh water
Public baths
Indoor plumbing
Indoor heating
Books
Glass
Hydrolic mining
Cranes
Standardized military doctrine
Superior art
Superior architecture
An empire with a common language and currency
Greek philosophy and science

Top that.

without the celts, the romans would not have had soap for thier baths.

no one is suggesting that roman culture was not rich.
however, the destruction of indigenous cultures is always wrong.

btw....fresh water?? indoor heating?? really??

and 'greek culture and philosophy' is not a roman product.

 

[Giz]

the destruction of indigenous cultures is always wrong.
.

Not always. For example, I give you the Aztec civilization: mass human sacrifice, constant war against weaker neighbours, and utter lack of progress.

and 'greek culture and philosophy' is not a roman product.

Preserving and spreading Greek culture and philosophy was a Roman product

 

[bikerdruid]

Not always. For example, I give you the Aztec civilization: mass human sacrifice, constant war against weaker neighbours, and utter lack of progress.

sorry....aztec or american culture?