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Is Marijuana Harmless?

Polaris said:
You're exactly right - they WOULD make buttloads of money with it. You're forgetting something: the criminal justice system and the American Bar Association are also huge lobbies, and they have a major, MAJOR vested interest in keeping marijuana illegal. Ever notice how every anti-marijuana ad and every study showing the "evils" of loco-weed are US Government approved (and usually funded)?
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There's also good, old American Puritanism.

The 18th Ammendment, the Volstead Act, the PMRC, Tipper Stickers, the War on Drugs...
Great American inventions.
 
Cyphermage said:
I have friends who tell me that if I just take LSD, I will see the answers to all the unsolved mathematical problems I am working on. While this may be true, I suspect the "answers" will look like total crap when the effects of the drug wear off.
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Quite right. I used to smoke pot. I would think I was having all these profound thoughts when I was under the influence. As a test, I started writing these thoughts down. In the morning, when I read them, I realized that they were complete and utter bulls**t.

Hey, cool. I was a skeptic even when I was stoned. :D
 
It would be difficult to test for health risks in a country where Cannabis is illegal.

The cheap standard hash in the UK, for instance, actually only contains a small amount of resin adulterated with car oil, chicken manure, glue, prescription medications and God knows what else. Good quality marijuana is a rare expensive thing here.This is as good a reason as any to legalise it.

I'm not sure about mental health problems but when I smoked it I generally felt forgetful for about a fortnight or so afterwards and this was only a few joints every week and the occasional bucket.

Also, it would be hard to study it's carcinogenic potential as most people who smoke it, in my experience at least, are regular tobacco smokers also and even if they don't smoke normal fags they still have to smoke tobacco to smoke the hash (bar bongs and the like).

It has been shown to help various conditions and in the past was used for almost everything from insomnia to Strychnine poisoning.
 
Nobody said:
Also, it would be hard to study it's carcinogenic potential as most people who smoke it, in my experience at least, are regular tobacco smokers also and even if they don't smoke normal fags they still have to smoke tobacco to smoke the hash (bar bongs and the like).
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Neither I nor any of my friends who smoke pot smoke cigarettes. But I guess a lot of people do. And as to your second point, I just learned (earlier in this thread) that it is common practice in the UK to mix hash with tobacco. Here in the US, though, everyone pretty much smokes their stuff straight.
 
Well I obviously got my words fed to me back at the beginning there, but I keep hearing on the radio (ABC News Radio, if you're interested) about how unhealthy pot smoking is, and how it is "related" to mental illness. I agree that there is likely to be some causation-correlation thing going on here, because it certainly contradicts my own experience.

My main problem with pot was that it ate my money. Big time. And I didn't much like having to deal with those shady types who sold it.

And because I was stoned, I didn't actually do anything in particular for those years, and I effectively "lost" the 90s.
 
Marijuana is probably about 15$ a gram in most places in America currently. The price would decrease to less than 15cents a gram if it were to be legalized. Costing less than tobacco currently is due to the fact it's so easy to produce.
 
Dustin said:
The price would decrease to less than 15cents a gram if it were to be legalized. Costing less than tobacco currently is due to the fact it's so easy to produce.
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Suspect not - any legalization package I have seen floated about the policy tables includes a major revenue component. Without a huge excise tax revenue incentive, I doubt any major Western government (ie Canada or the US) would genuinely consider a legalization initiative - and a daresay, until the US changes and/or Canada changes its government - will we see any action at all.

(I'm a tax policy expert for an economic think tank based out of the UK - a resident of Canada, but have been working overseas for the past 6 years including East Timor and Afghanistan)

That said - the problem in Canada is huge insofar as there is a burgeoning middle class growing from professional growers who are generating six figure (for home-based operations) incomes, under the radar of both law enforcement and the Revenue department, contributing little to no benefits (apart from consumption taxes, GST etc...) to the local economy. In the community where I live, the verification and enforcement section of our local tax office (Vancouver 'burbs) could devote 100% of its resources to audit / prosecute grow ops for tax evasion after being reported and shut down by the RCMP (without any criminal charges...) I personally suspect that lots of small-medium growers are operating completely under the radar.

I'm a proponent of North American legalization in a controlled fashion, including a robust package of revenue enforcement. What you have today is similar to 18th century tobacco farmers producing a hugely profitable cash crop with 0% tax base. I find this offensive personally as a taxpayer...

-AH.
 
Antiquehunter said:
Suspect not - any legalization package I have seen floated about the policy tables includes a major revenue component. Without a huge excise tax revenue incentive, I doubt any major Western government (ie Canada or the US) would genuinely consider a legalization initiative - and a daresay, until the US changes and/or Canada changes its government - will we see any action at all.

(I'm a tax policy expert for an economic think tank based out of the UK - a resident of Canada, but have been working overseas for the past 6 years including East Timor and Afghanistan)

That said - the problem in Canada is huge insofar as there is a burgeoning middle class growing from professional growers who are generating six figure (for home-based operations) incomes, under the radar of both law enforcement and the Revenue department, contributing little to no benefits (apart from consumption taxes, GST etc...) to the local economy. In the community where I live, the verification and enforcement section of our local tax office (Vancouver 'burbs) could devote 100% of its resources to audit / prosecute grow ops for tax evasion after being reported and shut down by the RCMP (without any criminal charges...) I personally suspect that lots of small-medium growers are operating completely under the radar.

I'm a proponent of North American legalization in a controlled fashion, including a robust package of revenue enforcement. What you have today is similar to 18th century tobacco farmers producing a hugely profitable cash crop with 0% tax base. I find this offensive personally as a taxpayer...

-AH.
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No tax could possibly increase the price from 15 cents to 15 dollars.

What tax in the WORLD is 100 times the price of the product?
 
wolfgirl said:
I have never seen this done.
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It's a European thing. I've never seen it in the US, either. The premade joints in the Netherlands (there's some special name for them, and they're oddly conical with plastic filters) have tobacco in them.
 
Doesn't surprise me that Milesalpha is from BC....as am I. Is your Pic-a-Flic related at all to our local (Victoria) rental shops? Best video rental place I've ever been (because they carried everything nobody else would).

This thread started out asking if Marijuana is harmless, but ultimately I think the question, as it relates to recreational use, is "does it matter if Marijuana is harmful?".

I would list the top three most common, and very harmful recreational substances as food, alcohol, and tobacco (perhaps this should be a new gov't branch?) but not necessarily in that order. All of them, in excess, will help to kill you quick.

I don't think that ANY drugs should necessarily be listed as illegal. The idea that we need to use government and law to save ourselves from our own self-destructive behaviors is perhaps the underlying issue.

I'd like to continue, but this is becoming a secondary topic. Is anyone interested in a new thread discussing the legality of drugs, and whether or not the onus for responsible use should be on the individual or the state?
 
I notice that most of these studies focus on chronic or heavy use of marijuana. I've been known to toke once a month or so, and have noticed absolutely no side effects, health changes or other deleterious memory effects from this.
I can believe that regular abuse of anything to excess is harmful, this is not rocket science.
 
I think what's interesting about the "harmful nature" of substance abuse is that there's possibly more harm done to the individual through personal neglect or poor choices than there is from direct physical exposure to the substance.

Heroin, for example, is relatively benign. However, the pursuit of heroin and the lifestyle that can often befall those who can't afford the habit will end up hurting them more.

I can't smoke pot, it causes me a severe asthma attack, so I avoid it. I also avoided it in grade school based on what I observed of the culture surrounding it's use. You could blame the drug...or you could simply infer that a certain attitude was common amongst it's users. (not all, but some)

Did pot make these people stupid? Or were they stupid to begin with? Or was the fact that many of them cut classes to get stoned result in their appearing less than intellectual? It didn't really matter to me, I wasn't interesting in hanging out with that particular crowd.

As an adult, I find myself with friends who are every bit as "well adjusted" as I think I am, and many of them enjoyed pot on a regular basis. It was part of what made them who they are, and ultimately I like them that way and don't want them to change. So where was the harm?

I'll still warn my children about the dangers of drug use, overeating, promiscuous sexual activity, and underage drinking. But my focus won't be on scaring them with bogeyman tactics about the evils of each of these things. Instead I'll be giving them as much information as I can on each subject, and encouraging their good decisions in each area. Combined with warnings of what can happen if you drink and drive, get stoned and drive, have unprotected sex, each too much bread....

I won't expect the law to protect me in any of these cases....
 
ChaoticLimbs said:
I notice that most of these studies focus on chronic or heavy use of marijuana. I've been known to toke once a month or so, and have noticed absolutely no side effects, health changes or other deleterious memory effects from this.
I can believe that regular abuse of anything to excess is harmful, this is not rocket science.
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I'm not disputing your findings, but philosophically how does one know what their potential would have been had they not already done something reputed to affect it?

I'm curious about how you would know whether your brain has been affected, or not? Do people who suffer from very gradual loss of cognitive functioning actually know that it is happening?

What if the effects of pot smoking were subtle and affected brain function in a way that wouldn't necessarily change your measurable IQ, but does change the way that you "think". Maybe motivation is lower, or access to artistic inspriation is somehow easier? The changes might be small, or not necessarily even "bad"....but they're still changes caused by the drug that could be labeled as "damage".

How do you know that you haven't been altered permanently by the drug, in a way that's completely unpredictable?

That's one of the questions I asked myself when I was in grade 6 or 7...and it bothered me enough to decide not to meddle with my brain chemistry.

The irony was that in my early 20s I spent years on anti-depressants....
 
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Dustin said:
No tax could possibly increase the price from 15 cents to 15 dollars.

What tax in the WORLD is 100 times the price of the product?

The price would decrease to less than 15cents a gram if it were to be legalized
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Your post suggested the price would decrease to 15 cents a gram from $15 a gram - I'm suggesting it would not. I have no idea what the final price would be in a hypothetical legalization scenario, but I suspect the tax burden would be huge - and I would not be surprised if the retail price remained close to the current market price.
 
Antiquehunter said:
Your post suggested the price would decrease to 15 cents a gram from $15 a gram - I'm suggesting it would not. I have no idea what the final price would be in a hypothetical legalization scenario, but I suspect the tax burden would be huge - and I would not be surprised if the retail price remained close to the current market price.
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Tobacco is much much less than Marijuana currently is. Tobacco is about 4$ for 20 cigarrets. However Tobacco is MUCH more difficult to grow and produce than marijuana is.

There is absolutely no reason,If legalized..The price of marijuana would stay the same. It would be even easier to produce than tobacco is now and anyone could do it. Meaning the price would drop down drastically. Even if it's taxed properly and highly...It won't increase the final proce much at all.


Meaning the final price would be around 14-20 cents per gram of marijuana if it were to be legalized and mass produced by companies like tobacco is.
 
:::takes hit off joint:::

Ummm...what was the question again?? <eg>


Dr Z
 
Marijuana IF it's dangerous...Is 1000 times less harmful than tobacco is, yet tobacco is legal.

Marijuana should also be legal and sold like tobacco or alcohol currently is. Many drugs or "food supplements" that are currently banned or scheduled should be sold legally OTC and others prescribed by doctors for those who want so the doctors can supervise them. Those I say should be decriminalized and able to be prescribed by doctors whenever are LSD,Morphine,Anabolic steroids just to name a few. LSD is non-deadly also, like marijuana. And Anabolic Steroids are much much safer than the media makes it seem.


No logical and reasonable person could disagree with that.
 
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