Is Islam an evil religion?

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Foster Zygote said:
At any rate, I am unable to find any Islamic source that mentions that music is punishable by molten lead in the ears.
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Not specifically music, per se, but in his tafsir of Qur'an 31:6, Syed Abul A'ala Maududi notes that in Ibn al-Arabi's Ahkam al-Quran, he relates a hadith from ‘Abdullah ibn Mubark and Imam Malik where Muhammad said "He who hears the song of a singing-girl in a musical concert will have molten lead poured in his ear on the Day of Judgment".

Maududi is quite specific that 31:6, the hadith in question, and a number of related hadiths all are solely addressing the impermissibility of buying and selling slave girls who have been taught music specifically to perform it (the word Muhammad used for "singing-girl", qaynah, is actually the word for a slave girl in general), and it's not any kind of prohibition on music or singing in a wider sense.
 
Bad Lieutenant said:
Yes indeed they are both quite evil. I do remember hearing recently that the quran threatens hellfire approximately 100 times more frequently than the bible however. Barely a verse passes without hellfire this, hellfire that in the quran so it seems fair to say Islam is many times more evil than Christianity by that token.
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In fact in the quran it says that the "people of the book" (i.e. Jews and Christians) along with moslims would go to heaven if they are righteous people.

So by that count Christianity is more evil since Jesus says only people who are baptized and believe in him would go to heaven.

Also...here is a philosophical question for you to ponder over.... if someone kills 1000 people is he less evil than a person who kills 10000?
 
I can see how one could get the impression that Muslims don't believe in listening to or performing music from various websites populated largely by Muslim members. There's a fair number of Muslims telling other Muslims not to listen to music. I suspect such sites are as useful in judging Islam as Baptist sites are in judging Christianity.
 
Leumas said:
So by that count Christianity is more evil since Jesus says only people who are baptized and believe in him would go to heaven.
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But look at http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark 16&version=NIV
The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.
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which is where your "Jesus saying" comes from. And for good reason they don't have these verses!
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
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So we have hell for non-believers, as well as safe poison-quaffing and snake-brandishing for believers. For the last 200 years, this passage has been challenged as an interpolation, and, like the editors of the NIV version of the scriptures, I think most scholars deny Marcan authorship of these verses.

Elsewhere, Mark knows nothing about eternal damnation. So Christianity is probably only just as evil as, rather than more evil than, the other Abrahamic faiths.
 
Robrob said:
Interesting that both have banned music!
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It might be if it were true. I'd be surprised if Baptists banned music. Certainly they don't in the UK, and I thought the Baptist churches in the US were particularly known for their gospel choirs.
 
Leumas said:
In fact in the quran it says that the "people of the book" (i.e. Jews and Christians) along with moslims would go to heaven if they are righteous people. So by that count Christianity is more evil since Jesus says only people who are baptized and believe in him would go to heaven.
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Al Kitab go to heaven according to the quran?! I thought it said they'd wind up in hell! Could you possibly state the sunnah/verse where that is stated? I confess I haven't had the patience to read the whole quran it drones on so :yawn:


Leumas said:
Also...here is a philosophical question for you to ponder over.... if someone kills 1000 people is he less evil than a person who kills 10000?
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:boggled:
 
Well, according to the TV programme I'm watching at the moment (Spice Britain), food in Britain would be a lot more boring without the Muslim world. There would be virtually no curry houses, for a start, or coffee, so there's no way Islam can be evil...
 
Bad Lieutenant said:
Al Kitab go to heaven according to the quran?! I thought it said they'd wind up in hell! Could you possibly state the sunnah/verse where that is stated? I confess I haven't had the patience to read the whole quran it drones on so :yawn:
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Try Qur'an 2:62. It's one of the Medinan verses.
 
ANTPogo said:
Does this mean you can't cite a source, like Foster Zygote asked for?
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No need to stay aggy B, there's more than one source direct. I guess I stopped naming sources after I quoted Iran's "Supreme Leader" because I didn't want to trivialise that stuff.
 
Bad Lieutenant said:
No need to stay aggy B, there's more than one source direct.
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So pick just one to cite, then, if there's so many to choose from.

I guess I stopped naming sources after I quoted Iran's "Supreme Leader"
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You quoted a single (Shia) scholar, who also explicitly stated that "music is halal", and whose opinions haven't really done a whole lot to prevent Muslims in Iran from listening to or performing music. It's even officially condoned by the theocratic government!

And this after you said "Nearly all the big gun scholars say music is basically a nono."

because I didn't want to trivialise that stuff.
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Not only am I not quite sure how refusing to back up your own claims is "trivializing", I'm also not quite sure where this newfound desire to avoid trivialization has come from.

You've been "trivializing" this issue right from the start; in the same post where you first asserted that music is a sin in Islam, you made a joke about how you could almost handle no bacon sandwiches but that no music was a dealbreaker for you.
 
And why do you think a single Shia messageboard and the words of a single Shia 'Alim represent all of Islam, Bad Lieutenant? Shias are only about 15% of all Muslims worldwide.

I've linked you to a fatwa issued by one of the "big guns" among the Sunni Ulama, which pretty much disagrees with you entirely about the suitability of music in Islam. Don't you have anything to say about that?
 
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Craig B said:
But look at http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark 16&version=NIV which is where your "Jesus saying" comes from. And for good reason they don't have these verses! So we have hell for non-believers, as well as safe poison-quaffing and snake-brandishing for believers. For the last 200 years, this passage has been challenged as an interpolation, and, like the editors of the NIV version of the scriptures, I think most scholars deny Marcan authorship of these verses.

Elsewhere, Mark knows nothing about eternal damnation. So Christianity is probably only just as evil as, rather than more evil than, the other Abrahamic faiths.
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Ah...but have a look at THE REST of the story.....:D

Matthew 3:10, 7:13-21, 8:12, 10:14-22, 11:20-24, 13:50-42, 25:30
Mark 4:11-12
Luke 13:23-24
John 3:3,18,36
Acts 16:30-31
Romans 1:16-17, 10:9


My favorites are John 3:
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​
 
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ANTPogo said:
Bad Lieutenant said:
Al Kitab go to heaven according to the quran?! I thought it said they'd wind up in hell! Could you possibly state the sunnah/verse where that is stated? I confess I haven't had the patience to read the whole quran it drones on so :yawn:
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Try Qur'an 2:62. It's one of the Medinan verses.
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Besides the one ANTPogo has given also see this posting I posted a while back....have a look at the Quran verses in there that if you were not looking closely would sound like the OT and NT verbatim.

They are not many verses....but illuminating.... so you should not get too much :yawn: factor...:p
 
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Foster Zygote said:
What I think is stupid is your argument that the negative aspects of the Koran must be taken literally by Muslims and put front and center when evaluating Islam as a whole, while the negative aspects of the Bible can be dismissed as allegories not meant to be taken literally when evaluating Jews and Christians.
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Exactly. This seems to be a common theme with xianity believers, the double standard that they can ignore whatever parts of their scripture is embarrassing or silly but other religions cannot do so.

Bill Thompson said:
Saudi Cleric Muhammad Musa Al-Sharif Defends the Marrying Off of Under-Age Girls in Saudi Arabia: "Atheists, Christians, and Fornicators Are Responsible for Human Rights Treaties".
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And this xian believes his religion's scripture allows him to molest children, including marrying twelve year old girls.:rolleyes:
 
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