Is Islam an evil religion?

[Foster Zygote]

If/when Islam gets its act together and the chips are down (perish the thought) music is not permissible.


Ayatollah Ali Khamenei:

"The promotion of music [both traditional and Western] in schools is contrary to the goals and teachings of Islam, regardless of age and level of study."

There are Christian sects who feel that the only acceptable way for a woman to dress is in a loose fitting blouse that covers everything from her neck to her wrists, a loose skirt that comes all the way down to her ankles and a cover over her hair. Does that mean that all Christian women dress that way? Of the two groups, which are the true Christians?

 

[Crossbow]

There are Christian sects who feel that the only acceptable way for a woman to dress is in a loose fitting blouse that covers everything from her neck to her wrists, a loose skirt that comes all the way down to her ankles and a cover over her hair. Does that mean that all Christian women dress that way? Of the two groups, which are the true Christians?

Seconded!

Another way to look at this issue is to recognize the fact that one can go to Vatican City and become an Exorcist for the Catholic Church, however that does not mean that all Christians believe in that sort of nonsense just because the Pope does.

 

[Mister Agenda]

I take my lead from long term research within a variety of Islamocentric message boards, not a disbelieving western Wikipedia page, in this case. Nearly all the big gun scholars say music is basically a nono.

Let me guess: Ummah.com?

 

[bikerdruid]

It also says music is sinful, and those who listen to music will have molten lead poured into their ears on the day of judgement. No music? GTFO. I could almost handle no bacon sandwiches I reckon but no music = no chance.

wrong.
there is much music in most muslim countries.

 

[Mister Agenda]

Just went to a Muslim wedding last month, plenty of music and dancing.

 

[A'isha]

You can even listen to some Muslim hip-hop, if you want.

Heck, Grammy-award-winning rapper Lupe Fiasco (real name Wasalu Muhammad Jaco) has a song where he mentions his faith quite prominently (with a bonus smack at extremist Muslims), and remixed Kanye West's "Jesus Walks" into "Muhammed Walks".

 

[Cleon]

Just to cement the point, Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) has come out of retirement and has been recording secular and religious music for the past few years.

 

[A'isha]

Just to cement the point, Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) has come out of retirement and has been recording secular and religious music for the past few years.

The Muslim Hip-Hop site I linked to above even has a pdf version of Yusuf Islam's own discussion of the subject, including where he notes "Interestingly, in the Islamic Republic of Iran, the ‘Ulema have recently decided that the songs I sang as Cat Stevens provides a good example for the youth, to show that there are positive aspects to some music and art."

A more official viewpoint (in the sense of an actual faqih issuing a fatwa, at least) comes from none other than Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who is perfectly fine with music, singing, and musical instruments.

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

And yet, Iran has a fairly vibrant musical community.

Vibrant compared to what; silence?

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

That was issued only last year (it also only specifically talked about the "promotion and practice" of music...oddly, music itself was explicitly noted as halal).

It also hasn't done much in the way of stopping most Iranians from playing, singing, listening to, or learning music. The Borna News Agency even reported just a couple days ago that the Iranian Ministry of Culture has issued a permit for Iran's first music video channel.

I don't think it's possible to separate the practice of music from music itself...probably just some language they used in order to moderate the tone of the message. I remember the Mullahs in charge these days in Iran are working against decades of Western influence semi-ingrained in the culture of the population. Perhaps they're allowing this music video channel in order to provide an alternative to the lascivious videos of the west...a softly softly approach.

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

If you define that as evil, then yes, Islam is evil. But then Christianity is evil too for the same reason. That is the point that many of us have been getting at in this thread: Islam has problems, but you can't single it out because other religions have virtually the same problems.

Yes indeed they are both quite evil. I do remember hearing recently that the quran threatens hellfire approximately 100 times more frequently than the bible however. Barely a verse passes without hellfire this, hellfire that in the quran so it seems fair to say Islam is many times more evil than Christianity by that token.

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

There is no such hadith.

Are you saying I made up the "boiling lead being poured into the ears on judgement day" bit? I've read it from multiple sources - it seems a reliable hadith to me if, indeed, there is such a thing in existence!

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

Let me guess: Ummah.com?

No actually, Shiachat.com - their forum is blinging.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Are you saying I made up the "boiling lead being poured into the ears on judgement day" bit? I've read it from multiple sources - it seems a reliable hadith to me if, indeed, there is such a thing in existence!

I'm not saying that you made it up, but I am saying that it does not exist in the context in which you used it. There is no hadith that states that boiling lead will be poured into the ears of those who play or listen to music. If you disagree, then you are welcome to post the specific Koranic verse.

 

[Leumas]

Are you saying I made up the "boiling lead being poured into the ears on judgement day" bit? I've read it from multiple sources - it seems a reliable hadith to me if, indeed, there is such a thing in existence!

So how do you know this? What qualifies you to judge? What criteria did you apply to be able to conclude the above?

Can you show me where in the Quran it says music is prohibited?

Throughout the Muslim world….geographically and historically… they had music.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Vibrant compared to what; silence?

Perhaps you could actually investigate music of Persian origin specifically, and Muslim origin in general before you dismiss it out of hands. There is a lot of it, and much of it is quite beautiful.

 

[Cleon]

I'm not saying that you made it up, but I am saying that it does not exist in the context in which you used it. There is no hadith that states that boiling lead will be poured into the ears of those who play or listen to music. If you disagree, then you are welcome to post the specific Koranic verse.

Hadith and Quran are two different tihngs.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Hadith and Quran are two different tihngs.

Ah, my mistake. I'd thought that "hadith" also referred to sayings attributed to Mohammed in the Koran as well.

At any rate, I am unable to find any Islamic source that mentions that music is punishable by molten lead in the ears.

 

[Crossbow]

Are you saying I made up the "boiling lead being poured into the ears on judgement day" bit? I've read it from multiple sources - it seems a reliable hadith to me if, indeed, there is such a thing in existence!

So you are worried about what someone says that will happen to some people when a supreme supernatural event which will never occurr does actually occurr?

Well, fretting about impossible things sounds like a real waste of time and effort to me. However, if worrying about impossible things makes you happy, then by all means please proceed.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will deal with reality.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Yes indeed they are both quite evil. I do remember hearing recently that the quran threatens hellfire approximately 100 times more frequently than the bible however. Barely a verse passes without hellfire this, hellfire that in the quran...

Can you cite a source for this? I've read large parts of the Koran and I did not get this impression.

...so it seems fair to say Islam is many times more evil than Christianity by that token.

This is the same numbers fallacy that Bill Thompson used in his argument about the number of references to condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible vs. the Koran.