Is Islam an evil religion?

[Foster Zygote]

It would be nice if it were true. But sources and evidence can be easily found with minimal effort.

Then find them.

 

[Brian-M]

No, the Koran was written by many people after Mohammed died.

It was my understanding that it was compiled after his death, which is a slightly different thing.

Checking Wikipedia, it seems that the 114 suras of the Koran were supposedly dictated by Mohammad to his companions at various times and places, who are supposed to have memorized the passages and written them down later. And the passages were then compiled after his death.

Bill has posted that video a couple of times, but not engaged in discussion over it.

I wasn't aware he'd posted it before. But this would be the right thread to discuss it, if he joins the discussion.

This is just an assumption of ignorance, and rather insulting.
The majority of Muslims do not interpret things the way that video suggests they should. Therefore it is a minority who are trying to redirect Islam in the direction the video describes. ie: hijack

The use of the word hijack in the video had me a little confused for a bit. It seems a very odd way to describe things.

What I also found strange was how they describe the difference between the Qur'an and every other religious book we are familiar with as being that it was written by a single author with their own lifetime. The Book of Mormon sprung immediately to mind, and there are certainly others.

So it's clear from the start that the video is not free from hyperbole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
Muslims are allowed to hide their faith if they are persecuted.
They don't get to conceal there faith as a means of waging secret war.

Ah, interesting. Another point where the video is clearly less than accurate.

 

[Bill Thompson]

DC, at the end of the video it does show the quranic passage that supports one of the key an essential points the video makes.

Plus, google is your friend. The video suggest to look for yourself and see if islamic charities support hamas. They do. Many have been caught doing so. To many to think it is just an isolated thing.

I notice that if reality does not fit the narrative that you want to believe, you lash out in many improper ways. Am I right?

 

[Bill Thompson]

Here you go:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...gc.r_pw.&fp=580575142019ba61&biw=1190&bih=738

Then find them.

I did. I did right when I saw on the video that it said I could do research myself and see that Islamic Charities support hamas. Lots have been caught doing so.

i did find them, man.

Also, at the end of the video it does show the quranic passage that supports one of the key an essential points the video makes about how the Quran says that when one finds a conflect in the Quran, you are supposed to go with the later verse. And, yes, often the later verse is more violent.

Mohammed stared out much more peace loving than he ended up. And as time went on, he found more and more reasons to easily go to battle.

 

[A'isha]

Now I know how Sisyphus felt.

Are we really going back to crap like these false claims about naskh and taqiyya? Really? We're going to do all this all over again, just like all those threads over the past four months never even happened?

 

[FireGarden]

The use of the word hijack in the video had me a little confused for a bit. It seems a very odd way to describe things.

Well, I think it's odd too.
Certainly, no-one has taken control of Islam.

I think the aim of the video is to portray the extremists as being the true face of Islam -- thereby delegitimising the majority.

What I also found strange was how they describe the difference between the Qur'an and every other religious book we are familiar with as being that it was written by a single author with their own lifetime. The Book of Mormon sprung immediately to mind, and there are certainly others.

I didn't get the point of the distinction. I'm not sure that Mohamed was the only author of the Quran, but so what if he was?

 

[DC]

DC, at the end of the video it does show the quranic passage that supports one of the key an essential points the video makes.

Plus, google is your friend. The video suggest to look for yourself and see if islamic charities support hamas. They do. Many have been caught doing so. To many to think it is just an isolated thing.

I notice that if reality does not fit the narrative that you want to believe, you lash out in many improper ways. Am I right?

can you quote it and explain me how exactly it is supporting the claims of the video?

 

[Bill Thompson]

Why do you need to include Bill Thompson's salad of freshly cut nonsense

If I am wrong. Show me where I am wrong.

 

[H3LL]

Islam is divided many times into different sects/cults/whatever and is only one of many religions which are also sub-divided many, many times over.

That said, to me the OP seems to be asking which pile of of the many piles of **** smells the worst.

My answer would be the one furthest away from me and with the fewest number of people adding to the **** pile is the least malodorous but would prefer not to be smelling **** at all.

All the Abrahamic religions are too close with too many people ******** in the pile. Their combined nauseating stench makes it impossible to choose.

Am I being too kind?


.

 

[Bill Thompson]

can you quote it and explain me how exactly it is supporting the claims of the video?

The video says to search online to see that the support of Hamass by Islamic charaties is not an isolated event. It seems that it is right. If you google it, there are many cases.

plus, I was right. You must have watched an edited version of the video. This one is longer and it has sources at the end of the video

Sura 2:16
Sura 16:101
Sura 17:86

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&e...gc.r_pw.&fp=45b2b70f47ef0456&biw=1213&bih=650
Canada finds Islamic charity used "deceptive fundraising" to ...

www.jihadwatch.org/.../canada-finds-islamic-charity-used-deceptive... - Apr 16, 2011 – But the Canada Revenue Agency caught up with this shell game. ... Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by Canada, the U.S., ... Canada finds Islamic charity used "deceptive fundraising" to support Hamas ...

Just use google.

ANd there are references at the end of the video.

I have to ask you something. I suspect you believe as you do because you want to and no amout of evidence will change your mind. Is your belief based on well thought unbaised study or wishful thinking?

 

[Bill Thompson]

All religions are evil.

That is mentioned in the original post

 

[Bill Thompson]

Islam is divided many times into different sects/cults/whatever and is only one of many religions which are also sub-divided many, many times over.

That said, to me the OP seems to be asking which pile of of the many piles of **** smells the worst.

My answer would be the one furthest away from me and with the fewest number of people adding to the **** pile is the least malodorous but would prefer not to be smelling **** at all.

All the Abrahamic religions are too close with too many people ******** in the pile. Their combined nauseating stench makes it impossible to choose.

Am I being too kind?


.

The idea that all religions are bad is addressed in the original post.

What is your point that all religions are bad?

So? So what is your point?

 

[Bill Thompson]

"Is Islam an evil religion?" No. But as everything , it can be used by a subset of evil people to justify their act. But the same can be said for all religions.

Amusing.

Read the original post. I think it is line 14 or so.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Well, I think it's odd too.
Certainly, no-one has taken control of Islam.

I think the aim of the video is to portray the extremists as being the true face of Islam -- thereby delegitimising the majority.

The point of "hi-jack" was that after 9-11 people wanted to believe that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda had hi-jacked islam to do their evil deeds. Everyone assumed that Islam had been hi-jacked by Al Qaeda.

 

[Bill Thompson]

great source you have there bill. do you agree with them that Obama never has proven that he is constitutionally eligible for the presidency?

do you also belief Obama is a Kenyan? LOL

What?!?! What are you TALKING about?
Is it possible for you to stick to a subject?
If you don't like the source of my information, just say so.
Why get all raging loony on me? And launch into another personal attack of me? You seem to have a hard time with that. Why is that?

Here, do you trust CNN?

From CNN, for those who love to attack me personally because they cannot stand to be proven wrong:
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-09-10/...nity-al-muhajiroun-british-muslim?_s=PM:WORLD

A UK-based Islamist group is planning a conference on September 11 hailing the suicide attackers who killed thousands in New York and Washington as "The Magnificent 19."
The group al-Muhajiroun have reportedly put up posters around Britain displaying the slogan and pictures of the hijackers ahead of the second anniversary of the attacks.
The poster, seen on the group's Web site, also shows images of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden superimposed on a picture of the World Trade Center towers in flames.

According to its site, the group says it will hold a news conference in north London on Thursday at which the venue of the conference will be announced.
Reuters news agency reported the group plans to hold conferences in four British cities -- London, Birmingham, Leicester and Manchester -- to mark the September 11, 2001, anniversary.
British authorities said police would be monitoring the group, and mainstream Muslim groups have denounced al-Muhajiroun as a radical organization that misrepresents the views of the country's two million Muslims.
But a spokesman for the group, Abu Omar, said this week that the actions of the 19 hijackers were "quite splendid" and were "completely justified" by Sharia law.
Omar said Muslims who condemned the attacks were "apostates" whose opinions should carry no weight.
"I believe that the Muslim community around the world believes those 19 were magnificent," Omar told the BBC. The organization's UK head, Anjem Choudary, told Reuters: "Those individuals are Muslims, they were carrying out their Islamic responsibility and duty, so in that respect they were magnificent, and the Muslims worldwide hope that they are accepted as martyrs in the eyes of God."

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=45b2b70f47ef0456

 

[A'isha]

Sura 2:16
Sura 16:101
Sura 17:86

If you're talking about the verses that supposedly promulgate the doctrine of abrogation (naskh), the first one should be 2:106.

I suggest you read Burton's "The Sources of Islamic Law: Islamic Theories of Abrogation". Amazon even has it on sale.

The point of "hi-jack" was that after 9-11 people wanted to believe that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda had hi-jacked islam to do their evil deeds. Everyone assumed that Islam had been hi-jacked by Al Qaeda.

Including, it should be noted, Islamist hardliners like Yusuf al-Qaradawi.

 

[FireGarden]

Sura 2:16
Sura 16:101
Sura 17:86

2:16
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/quran/00202.htm

The numbering of verses isn't always consistent, so i assume you mean this verse:
14. When they meet those who believe,
They say: "We believe;"
But when they are alone
With their evil ones,
They say: "We are really with you:
We (were) only jesting."

15. God will throw back
Their mockery on them,
And give them rope in their trespasses;
So they will wander like blind ones
(To and fro).

16. These are they who have bartered
Guidance for error:
But their traffic is profitless,
And they have lost true direction,




That's a condemnation of hypocrites who tell Muslims that they are Muslims, but then say other things in other company. If you want the verse on Taqqiya, you might try the wiki link I gave earlier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
Muslims are allowed to hide their faith if they are persecuted.
They don't get to conceal there faith as a means of waging secret war.


16:101
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/quran/01614.htm

That is a verse which confirms there is such a thing as abrogation. This has not been contested. It is accepted that there is such a thing as abrogation. Now show where particular verses are abrogated. Such as:

2:190 "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors"

Is there a later verse which says: "Fight, even before they attack you. Lo! God loves the aggressors."

I don't see the relevance of 17:86
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/quran/01710.htm

 

[Bill Thompson]

My point was that the video DID provide references.

 

[FireGarden]

If you're talking about the verses that supposedly promulgate the doctrine of abrogation (naskh), the first one should be 2:106.

I suppose that is what he meant.

I didn't read 17:86 as being about abrogation, though. More of an "I could take it all away and leave with you with nothing. Aren't you lucky I share my wisdom with you?"

 

[Bill Thompson]

If you're talking about the verses that supposedly promulgate the doctrine of abrogation (naskh), the first one should be 2:106.

I suggest you read Burton's "The Sources of Islamic Law: Islamic Theories of Abrogation". Amazon even has it on sale.



Including, it should be noted, Islamist hardliners like Yusuf al-Qaradawi.

ANTPogo, would you agree that the true spirit of Islam is one of spreading by the sword, and it is, in reality, the "rare radical" who is peaceful and not the other way around?