Is Islam an evil religion?

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Minoosh said:
Well there you go. Proof.

Plenty of religions promote fasting as a spiritual discipline. Lots of people function during Ramadan, which won't sway people who have been convinced by the experience of a guy they knew. Scripture allows exceptions to fasting, and those are interpreted variously from place to place.

Oh yeah, the Islamaphobes say the Qu'ran is not open to interpretation which it certainly is - it's also open to differences in translation which can be considerable.

If you go to a moderately Muslim country this idea that all Muslims are alike and walk in lock-step to identical interpretations of the Qu'ran falls away. This monolithic bogeyman Islam seems not so monolithic anymore. Islamic extremism may be evil but the way Islam is practiced in daily life, no. Go. See. You'll learn.
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Pentecostals fast at the drop of a hat. My parents had me fasting for days when I was, like, ten. How much longer are we going to tolerate Pentecostalism?

And if you think Pentacostalism should be tolerated, why are you for ten-year-olds being forced to fast?
 
Mister Agenda said:
Pentecostals fast at the drop of a hat. My parents had me fasting for days when I was, like, ten. How much longer are we going to tolerate Pentecostalism?

And if you think Pentacostalism should be tolerated, why are you for ten-year-olds being forced to fast?
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Saves money and keeps your kids from getting too fat. I consider the benefits to outweight the harms :D
 
Not to mention that the fasting during Ramadan is more symbolic than it is an actual fast. Muslims fast from sunrise to sundown, but are allowed to drink water to avoid dehydration, and anyone who's health would actually suffer from the fast is exempt, such as the elderly, sick, pregnant women etcetera. The Muslims I know get up early enough to have a big, nourishing breakfast before dawn, then have a big dinner right after sunset. The idea that the practice of fasting during Ramadan is some barbaric act of cruelty that results in suffering and loss of jobs is just silly.
 
Lowpro said:
Saves money and keeps your kids from getting too fat. I consider the benefits to outweight the harms :D
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Hell, most Americans would probably benefit from a secular holiday called "Stop Stuffing Your Pie-Hole Month".
 
Islam is an evil religion according to modern standards.

Apologists are caught in several Catch 22s that they cannot wiggle out of. For example, if Mohammed's wife was not 9 (which she was) then Islam is even MORE evil since that is what all the scoloars and teachers have instructed from the very beginning.

Or that bit that there are suddenly Muslim Scolars saying "well, maybe we should not have a death sentence on Rushdie". Another Catch 22. That means that now Muslim authority figures are contradicting each other. Which is just as destructive to Islam's image.
 
Mister Agenda said:
This story seems to have grown since you first told it, Bill. How do you know why your friend was fired?
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Now I admit I am guessing on what is most likely. He just now emailed me since he was let go. So I will get to the bottom of what happened.

Yeah the story has grown. It has grown because I have talked with other Muslims. They tell me that not only can someone not concentrate, but some older muslims seem to die off during Ramadon.
 
Bill Thompson said:
Apologists are caught in several Catch 22s that they cannot wiggle out of. For example, if Mohammed's wife was not 9 (which she was) then Islam is even MORE evil since that is what all the scoloars and teachers have instructed from the very beginning.
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No, it's not. Do you even know when the various hadith were compiled, or which hadith are accepted by which traditions and sects in Islam?

And even among Muslims who accept the Bukharin chronology of Ai'sha's age, there has been a long internal discussion for centuries regarding just what that means for Muslims. Again, see Dr. Ali's book.

Or that bit that there are suddenly Muslim Scolars saying "well, maybe we should not have a death sentence on Rushdie".
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"Suddenly"? There have been Muslims opposed to Khomeini's fatwa since the very beginning. The book I linked you to was published nearly twenty years ago!

Another Catch 22. That means that now Muslim authority figures are contradicting each other. Which is just as destructive to Islam's image.
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Muslim authority figures have always contradicted each other! Hell, even the Sunni have four current madh'hab, and used to have a lot more besides, all of which often issued contradictory rulings on things. And that's even before you get to things like the Sunni/Shia divide, or all the other various sects and subsects. Do you even know what the first fitnah was about, Bill?
 
BikerDruid brings up this bit about congressmen who support bill making homosexuality illegal in Uganda but the congressmen have said it means making the intentional spreading of AIDS illegal.

And this makes christinaity more evil than islam as he sees it.

The problem is that he does not have a point. homosexuality, unfortunately is already illegal in Uganda. So his argument is moot. And even if this somehow proved that christianity is evil or somehow more evil than Islam, him hijacking the argument for his own political agenda is a violation of Rule 11.

Consider this. What if the Pope came out and said officially that it was ok for catholic priests to do the evil things they have done to young boys. I think no one would have any problem with saying that this was proof that catholisim is evil. It would make it official since the pope is the official authority of catholisim.

The offical authority in Islam is the Grand Mufti. I saw on CNN that he has officially said that the practice of marrying off little girls against their will is a good thing. So there you go. Case closed. Islam is Evil.
 
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I know Bill has me on ignore, but for the benefit of everyone else:

Bill Thompson said:
BikerDruid brings up this bit about congressmen who support bill making homosexuality illegal in Uganda but the congressmen have said it means making the intentional spreading of AIDS illegal.
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Wrong. This was articulated by the head of the extremist Evangelical Christian hate-group Family Research Council.

And far from focusing on preventing the spread of AIDS. the bill makes even repeated attempts to engage in regular, consensual, adult homosexual acts where neither party is infected with HIV punishable by death.

The offical authority in Islam is the Grand Mufti.
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No, it's not. That's like saying "The official authority in Christianity, even Protestant Christianity, is the Pope."

The Grand Mufti is not an authority over all Muslims. He's not even an authority over all Sunni Muslims. In fact, there isn't even a single Grand Mufti. There are currently separate Grand Muftis in Albania, Australia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Caucasus, Egypt, France, India, Iraq, Lebanon, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Russia, and Turkey.
 
Bill Thompson said:
BikerDruid brings up this bit about congressmen who support bill making homosexuality illegal in Uganda but the congressmen have said it means making the intentional spreading of AIDS illegal.

And this makes christinaity more evil than islam as he sees it.
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Did he say that? So far, the only person I've seen arguing that any particular religion is more evil than the rest is you.

The problem is that he does not have a point. homosexuality, unfortunately is already illegal in Uganda. So his argument is moot. And even if this somehow proved that christianity is evil or somehow more evil than Islam, him hijacking the argument for his own political agenda is a violation of Rule 11.
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This argument makes no sense. How does the fact that homosexuality is already illegal in predominantly Christian Uganda nullify the fact that there is a push to make it punishable by death? And again, you are the only one claiming that one religion is worse than the others.

Consider this. What if the Pope came out and said officially that it was ok for catholic priests to do the evil things they have done to young boys. I think no one would have any problem with saying that this was proof that catholisim is evil. It would make it official since the pope is the official authority of catholisim.
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No, it would be proof positive that the Pope is evil. But I already know he is evil because he is responsible for having covered up the sexual abuse of children by members of his clergy. Guilt by association is wrong whether you are playing it with Muslims or Christians.

The offical authority in Islam is the Grand Mufti. I saw on CNN that he has officially said that the practice of marrying off little girls against their will is a good thing. So there you go. Case closed. Islam is Evil.
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Which Grand Mufti? There are like fifteen of them, and they only have authority over local populations of Sunnis. So which one was it?
 
Bill Thompson said:
... snipped for brevity ...

The offical authority in Islam is the Grand Mufti. I saw on CNN that he has officially said that the practice of marrying off little girls against their will is a good thing. So there you go. Case closed. Islam is Evil.
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Well, since some people say that they are in danger of having some Muslim knife them in the back as they walk to work, then it would be wise if you recognized just how limited the powers of a Grand Mufti are before you get all bent out of shape about them.

In this case …

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mufti

The Grand Mufti's fatāwā (plural of "fatwā") are not binding precedents in areas of civil laws regulating marriage, divorce, and inheritance. In criminal courts, the Grand Mufti's recommendations are generally not binding either.

Then it goes on to say …

The relationship between the Grand Mufti of any given nation or empire and the state's rulers can vary considerably, both by region and by historical era.
 
Here's the Israeli equivalent of a mufti (quite a big mufti) spouting noisome balderdash.
The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews, according to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator.

“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat.

According to Yosef, the lives of non-Jews in Israel are safeguarded by divinity, to prevent losses to Jews. “In Israel, death has no dominion over them... With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew,” Yosef said. “Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created," he added.
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http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=191782

"So there you go. Case closed. Islam is Evil." I mean, the "the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator" doesn't represent Judaism, does he? :)
 
Foster Zygote said:
Not to mention that the fasting during Ramadan is more symbolic than it is an actual fast. Muslims fast from sunrise to sundown, but are allowed to drink water to avoid dehydration, and anyone who's health would actually suffer from the fast is exempt, such as the elderly, sick, pregnant women etcetera. The Muslims I know get up early enough to have a big, nourishing breakfast before dawn, then have a big dinner right after sunset. The idea that the practice of fasting during Ramadan is some barbaric act of cruelty that results in suffering and loss of jobs is just silly.
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Yeah, a big breakfast early in the morning so you don't get too hungry during the day, a big meal in the evening, you're only missing lunch. Lots of people only eat two meals a day. It's way better than not eating anything for three days and drinking only water like I did. Now the meals are spaced out far enough you wouldn't want young kids or people with medical conditions doing it, but it should be harmless for most people.
 
Bill Thompson said:
The offical authority in Islam is the Grand Mufti. I saw on CNN that he has officially said that the practice of marrying off little girls against their will is a good thing. So there you go. Case closed. Islam is Evil.
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he might have power over some branck of islam, but islam does not have a 'pope' anymore than christianity does.
the pope does not speak for baptists, any more than this grand poobah dude speaks for all of islam.
 
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