Split Thread Is communism a viable alternative economic system these days?

[Humes fork]

In most countries actually. This is exactly what I call "the illusion of free choice". Theoretically you do have the choice, only that those "genuine alternatives" are not exposed enough by the media, are ridiculed by the most powerful parties which subtly spread the idea that if they ever come to power then anarchy and chaos will ensue, and so on.

But there is no consoiracy here. It is natural to focus on the large parties, as opposed to those who have the support of perhaps less than 1%. Small parties can work their way to political progress. In Sweden we have the Christian Democrats, the Green Party and the Sweden Democrats who were marginal for quite some time, but eventually worked their way to the parliament. It's hard and requires determination, but it's possible if there is broader popular support for their ideas.

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

If there were robot slaves that did all the work for us; would unemployment be a problem then? When will this point be reached?

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

If there were robot slaves that did all the work for us; would unemployment be a problem then? When will this point be reached?

Nearly all the work. I should have written nearly.

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

In the film Edward Scissorhands, his creator got the idea from his "magical biscuit manufacturing machine", if you remember the film. He was somewhat crippled.

 

[Humes fork]

If there were robot slaves that did all the work for us; would unemployment be a problem then? When will this point be reached?

20000 years ago all humans were "employed" in food production. Now only a few percent are. Are the rest unemployed?

 

[Darth Rotor]

Do you love shopping?

No.

I've no problem with some central planning i.e. the NHS.

Not sure you understand the term. Central Planning. Go back to Lenin's Five Year Plans, and some of the heavily centralized planning of the US Industrial Production boards during World War II to get an idea of what central planning looks like on a governmental level. (Not all downside, see Hoover Dam!)

Is this a visual joke about reaching a given point in a system's life cycle?

Is communism a viable alternative economic system these days?

No, but Distributism may be, or a form of it. Most analyses of that idea tend to see limits in scale.

Like most "systems" (and to toss a bone to El Greco, absolutely including capitalism) they tend to morph away from any ideal state or model as scales go up and down.

 

[Virus]

Yes they do. Fascism is a final stage of capitalism.

Fascists advocated a state-directed economy. A lot of their economic policies don't look much different to what Socialists or the Occupy Walltards advocate.

Like I said. Communism and Fascism are sister ideologies that arose in reaction to classical liberalism. Much like how you hate classical liberalism and advocate whatever the hell it is you advocate. Living in mud huts or something.

 

[Robrob]

Communism is the sister ideology of Fascism. Nobody asks if Fascism is a viable economic system.

Amazing, a position I actually agree with...

Fascists advocated a state-directed economy. A lot of their economic policies don't look much different to what Socialists or the Occupy Walltards advocate.

Like I said. Communism and Fascism are sister ideologies that arose in reaction to classical liberalism. Much like how you hate classical liberalism and advocate whatever the hell it is you advocate. Living in mud huts or something.

And you just knew it would be ruined by nonsense.

 

[McHrozni]

Yes, but in the Eastern Bloc, where trade was more tightly controlled, socialism failed because of "The Grass Is Greener" materialism. Some people wept because there were suddenly homeless people on the streets. Some people cackled because they could afford cuban cigars and they always wanted 15 diamond encrusted solid gold lamas.

Actually the Eastern Bloc failed because the socialist or communist system can not exist without monopolizing political power. That's because it's criminally ineffecient and extremely open for abuses. It has a natural tendency to rot very, very rapidly and no natural self-correcting mechanisms.

But yes, the stark contrast in quality of life was a major trigger, caused by these inherent and unavoidable problems. Don't presume it was the actual cause for the collapse, the true causes were in that your vaunted system was, in fact, crap.

McHrozni

 

[timhau]

Actually the Eastern Bloc failed because the socialist or communist system can not exist without monopolizing political power. That's because it's criminally ineffecient and extremely open for abuses. It has a natural tendency to rot very, very rapidly and no natural self-correcting mechanisms.

That's basically it. In Western democracies, citizen feedback is usually encouraged only in election speeches, and in practice its effect is slow and dampened by bureaucratic and political inertia. In Eastern Bloc countries, most forms of citizen feedback were de facto criminalized. Neither system is ideal, but one of them worked (and works) a hell of a lot better than the other.

 

[Virus]

And how about that greatest mass-murderers in human history thing. Hard to bounce back from stuff like that.

 

[timhau]

And how about that greatest mass-murderers in human history thing.

But see, they had to. All those reactionaries and their false consciousnesses; it was for the good of the people. You can't make a really small omelette without breaking a couple of million eggs.

 

[bikerdruid]

And how about that greatest mass-murderers in human history thing. Hard to bounce back from stuff like that.

according to Le Livre Noir du Capitalisme there have been 100 million deaths attributable to capitalism in the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

 

[Virus]

Second line of your link:

Le Livre Noir du Capitalisme does not attempt to provide a comprehensive tally of victims of the politico-economic system in question.

 

[bikerdruid]

Second line of your link:

and the second paragraph:
An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.

 

[Trakar]

Split from Cubans: Tell us about your country.

Posted By: Locknar

Like many other countries in the "developed" world the UK's religion is shopping, particularly at this special time of the year.

Has true Communism ever been actually attempted in any country?

 

[Mark6]

Has true Communism ever been actually attempted in any country?

If it was attempted, then by definition it was not true Communism!

Seriously, Israeli kibbutzim were probably closest. After several decades of their existence, the evidence is:

1. They can be successful for a while and on small scale
2. They do not scale up well
3. Eventually they fail without constant subsidies from (capitalist) rest of the country

 

[Virus]

and the second paragraph:
An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.

I see they're pretty generous with their inclusion criteria to bump it up to 100 million.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

@Bikerdruid

Unless every western politician was Freeza, i fail to see how World War 1 was a result of lol!capitalism rather than a dispute over a murder inquiry getting out of hand. Nor do I see how Capitalism as an ideology was responsible for WW2.