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Split Thread Is communism a viable alternative economic system these days?

Communism is the sister ideology of Fascism. Nobody asks if Fascism is a viable economic system.

What about socialism? Socialist systems are the practical manifestation of communist ideology (eg. communist/socialist N Korea), so I'll just call it socialism from now on to stop knee-jerk vomit-reflexes.

What's socialism then, the aunt of democracy?
 
What about socialism? Socialist systems are the practical manifestation of communist ideology (eg. communist/socialist N Korea), so I'll just call it socialism from now on to stop knee-jerk vomit-reflexes.

What's socialism then, the aunt of democracy?

Planned economies don't work.
 
What about socialism? Socialist systems are the practical manifestation of communist ideology (eg. communist/socialist N Korea), so I'll just call it socialism from now on to stop knee-jerk vomit-reflexes.

What's socialism then, the aunt of democracy?

Socialism is just a vehicle for middle class lefties to pay themselves huge wages in pointless public sector jobs.
 
Socialism is just a vehicle for middle class lefties to pay themselves huge wages in pointless public sector jobs.

Facile and untrue, but I'm assuming you know that.

Communism is the sister ideology of Fascism. Nobody asks if Fascism is a viable economic system.

Yes they do. Fascism is a final stage of capitalism.

Considering that the USSR failed for economic reasons, ...

The same is true of the USA.
 
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Communism is the sister ideology of Fascism. Nobody asks if Fascism is a viable economic system.

Is fascism a viable economic system?

Oh wait, it isn't really an economic system at all, is it?

Virus, I think I debate the relative merits or otherwise of an ideolgy that you despise much better than you. In fact, having you on my side is a little bit like having a hairy oozing running sore on my side. Do you know anywhere where I can have you surgically removed?
 
At least there isn't a pathological drive to create unnecessary economic activities in order to solve unemployment/poverty.
Obviously you know nothing about Communism. USSR created full employment precisely by unnecessary economic activities, like making boatloads of 20-liter cooking pots nobody wanted.
Under communism when the work's done it's done - there's no need to travel the earth attempting to flog life insurance policies
Do you not see the contradiction in your statement? What do you think happened when (real) work's done to ensure workers remain employed?
 
I think the defects of communist governments are an extremely feeble basis on which to argue that capitalists do not induce false consciousness in the population.
I would say what Marx called "false consciousness" does in fact exist -- witness Americans who tolerate high inequality because they think it allowes them to move up in the world, when in reality social mobility is higher in most of Western Europe, -- but English language already has a perfectly good phrase for that phenomenon: "wishful thinking". High-sounding terms like "false consciousness" exist only to make an even worse system look more appealing.
 
Obviously you know nothing about Communism. USSR created full employment precisely by unnecessary economic activities, like making boatloads of 20-liter cooking pots nobody wanted.

That's not full employment, that's over-employment. 16 hour weeks - didn't you read the thread? For one thing, improvements in information technology should lead to a system where supply actually = demand, instead of businesses constantly going bust and rogue salesman ripping off dementia sufferers as they can't find customers or bare to be dole-scum.

Nobody's saying the USSR got it right, and anyway why not call it socialism.
 
Planned economies don't work.
Planned economies have worked a bit in the past, they've been outperformed in terms of GDP by free market economies however. That's what you meant.

Who gives a **** about GDP when everybody lives in comparative luxury anyway?

The grass isn't really any greener when the only difference is the neighbour has 3 gold plated lamas instead of 2, especially given the 3 lama neighbour also suffers the downsides of capitalism.
 
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Considering that the USSR failed for economic reasons, ...
Yes, but in the Eastern Bloc, where trade was more tightly controlled, socialism failed because of "The Grass Is Greener" materialism. Some people wept because there were suddenly homeless people on the streets. Some people cackled because they could afford cuban cigars and they always wanted 15 diamond encrusted solid gold lamas.
 
I would say what Marx called "false consciousness" does in fact exist -- witness Americans who tolerate high inequality because they think it allowes them to move up in the world, when in reality social mobility is higher in most of Western Europe, -- but English language already has a perfectly good phrase for that phenomenon: "wishful thinking". High-sounding terms like "false consciousness" exist only to make an even worse system look more appealing.

And you think Western Europe is Marxist?
 
Planned economies have worked a bit in the past, they've been outperformed in terms of GDP by free market economies however. That's what you meant.

Who gives a **** about GDP when everybody lives in comparative luxury anyway?

Yeah, why do you insist on having a personal computer?

And why bother with this economic growth? It's so pointless to fund stuff like cures for cancer and ALS. Thinking about it, what's the use of an average lifespan at 30-40 years?
 
Yes they do. Fascism is a final stage of capitalism.

There isn't any "final stage" of capitalism. Predicting (wrongly) societal stages is for Marxists. Capitalism isn't even an ideology or school of thought. It's an economic system embraced by many ideologies.
 
Yes, but in the Eastern Bloc, where trade was more tightly controlled, socialism failed because of "The Grass Is Greener" materialism. Some people wept because there were suddenly homeless people on the streets. Some people cackled because they could afford cuban cigars and they always wanted 15 diamond encrusted solid gold lamas.

The grass was actually greener though.
 
No, they generally represent a broader currents in society. The loud shouting is a symptom.

No. How much traction do anti-capitalist parties gain in elections? In Europe, you can see parties that have communist roots have moved to what is basically social democracy. Why? The old agenda to abolish capitalism is not electorally viable. Capitalism in some form is extremely popular among the electorates in Western democracies.

You also don't see people out and demonstrate in favor of capitalism. Why? Because capitalism isn't threatened at all.
 
Yes, but in the Eastern Bloc, where trade was more tightly controlled, socialism failed because of "The Grass Is Greener" materialism. Some people wept because there were suddenly homeless people on the streets. Some people cackled because they could afford cuban cigars and they always wanted 15 diamond encrusted solid gold lamas.

Yeah, that was precisely the difference between the quality of life in the West and in the Warsaw Pact countries: paucity of 15-diamond-encrusted solid gold llamas in the East.
 
Do you love shopping?

No, not really. When I go out to buy something, I usually know what I'm after, buy it (or them) and go home again. Some people have shopping as a hobby, I don't. But if it makes them happy, then good for them. I'm not going to force them to abstain.
 

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