Is anyone surprised that Kevin Trudeau...

[Donks]

[There are 41 in all...and he gives reasons why for al these things. many sound reasonable and common sense-like, don't they? The common theme is: It's not natural. Don't do it.]

So the guy collected every health related spam email out there and put them in his book. Go look at snopes and search for all these, you'll find many debunked there.

 

[CaveDave]

I'm surprised that more people aren't getting in on this discussion.

In my case, it's from the sheer disbelief that you might actually believe that regurgitated tripe, coupled with the growing conviction that you cared more about getting a rise from the more sceptical members of this forum than you did about finding out the truth about such transparent misinformation with which that convicted confidence artist's book brims over. Eos of the Eons, fowlsound, RandFan, and others have expended great effort to help you find information that disputes that bilgewater-in-book-form, but instead of paying attention to their offers of reason, you simply reproduce long segments of the same self-serving manuscript of misdirection.

If you truely want to debate his points, pick one set of statements in a limited range, state your reasons for believing them, then wait for the response to those points, debate if you want, then move on to the next set. Flooding the forum with lengthy transcriptions of densly incorrect (as in: almost every sentence contains some actual truth blended in with many commonly believed falsehoods and much intentional misdirection and outright lies) serves to only confuse the issue and discourage those who might want to help you understand specific points in their areas of knowlege.

That book serves best as a monument to the confidence man's art as it plays like a harp the emotional strings of huge numbers of desperate people's fears, suspicions, desires, and beliefs. It seeks to take advantage of the fact that the vast majority of people have little or no scientific knowlege or understanding of the methods of science, and trust in authority figures to tell them what is real. It also takes advantage of their fear of entrenched institutions where unknown agendas may be in play, and faceless corporations where large sums of money and power appear to be their sole motivation. This book seeks to obscure the truth by piling misunderstanding upon falsehood upon lie upon superstition: a gordion knot of smoke and mirrors; pure deception. The sole purpose appears to be to enrich the con-artist and his cohort by the sales of products and internet subscriptions. It depresses me that anyone buys such rubbish, much less enough to drive the sales it has had. In my mind's eye, I see the old cartoon image of the coyote after being drawn in by a trick by the roadrunner, standing there turning into a stick with a paper wrapper around the head emblazoned with "SUCKER".

Dave

Added missing word.

 

[Ducky]

Well spoken Dave.

To further show troll ways of Iamme, I point to this thread.

Iamme acted surprised to know I had cancer in this thread, yet was spouting Kevin Trudeau's crap all the way back on 8/15 in a thread in which I openly stated I was a cancer patient.

So it's back to the moniker of "troll" as far as I am concerned.





edited for spelling

 

[RandFan]

But if a person has cancer you don't say: "Hmm, cancer cells...let me cut them out, let me shoot them full of radiation, let me use some drugs that may kill them." Ask yourself why cancer is growing in the body. The answer is: The body is acidic. What's causing the body to be acidic?

Pure and utter BS. I have 3 clients at UCLA. One is involved in treatment. Another is involved in counseling. The last is in research. There is absolutely no empirical data to back up what this man is saying. Further there IS empirical data that conventional treatment and therapies work. I have created databases for research and tracking treatments including alternative treatments. I can tell you that those who seek alternative treatments have a far shorter life span.

WHERE THE HELL DOES THIS GUY GET THIS STUFF?

Come on Iamme, where does he come up with this? There is real and demonstrable evidence that he is flat out wrong. Those who seek alternative treatments live no more than those that don't get any treatment.

Let's find out what's going into the body, what is going out of the body, what the person thinks, how he is excercizing, how he is resting and what he is saying, and let's turn this around in a very simple way and then the cancer goes away.

Based on what? What gives this man the basis for making this statement? Has he done double blind studies?

We reduce stress, we strengthen the immune system, the body becomes alkaline, and disease can't exist."

BS.

I wonder if it is against copyright laws for me to be making quotes out of a book that is being sold in hopes that people buy it?

Why would anyone buy the book? I don't get your enthusiasm. What are Kevin's credentials? What is his evidence? The book is a worthless waste of ink and paper. Absent some REASON to think this man has anything to say I can't imagine anyone with any critical thinking skills buying the book.

 

[RandFan]

Well spoken Dave.

To further show troll ways of Iamme, I point to this thread.

Iamme acted surprised to know I had cancer in this thread, yet was spouting Kevin Trudeau's crap all the way back on 8/15 in a thread in which I openly stated I was a cancer patient.

So it's back to the moniker of "troll" as far as I am concerned.

I didn't know this. Thanks fowlsound. The bulb is coming on in my head. Hey, you don't have to hit me over the head with a 2x4. I don't get trolls. What's the point?

 

[Ducky]

I didn't know this. Thanks fowlsound. The bulb is coming on in my head. Hey, you don't have to hit me over the head with a 2x4. I don't get trolls. What's the point?

Well I had removed my labeling of troll earlier in the thread as it seemed Iamme was actually listening and beginning to discuss. I had forgotten about that thread until someone posted in it today and I got an email about it.

So now I think the moniker should stick.

I apparently don't get trolls either.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I'm just stunned anyone would compare marriage (something totally independent of anatomy) to the drivel splayed in a book like Trudeau's. Yeah sure, you can try out marriage. At least it won't kill you...it's not like you're delaying some treatment for cancer by using idiotic misinformation.

I'm aware of Cancer quackery in Canada though, like boooeee pointed out. I've posed some questions to:
http://www.ccrg.com/
They call themselves "Canadian Cancer Research Group"

The site owner is not a doctor or even a quack doctor...just a con with magic potion to sell. You can read how unethical the owner is:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/ccrg.htm

These CCRG people claim to have a magic potion to cure cancer. It doesn't work...his patients always die.
I asked them what is commonly used in their potions...and haven't received any sort of reply.

I can't believe these sites are allowed to remain on the internet. I guess Canada lacks laws on lying about medical treatment in that medium.

 

[CaveDave]

Well spoken Dave.

Thank you, fellow Dave.

To further show troll ways of Iamme, I point to this thread.

Iamme acted surprised to know I had cancer in this thread, yet was spouting Kevin Trudeau's crap all the way back on 8/15 in a thread in which I openly stated I was a cancer patient.

I looked, I saw, I agreed.

As further illustration of his inscrutable ways, here is a quote of his from that thread:

Take colon cancer. I have theorized ( I always presuppose that researchers are wrong. I have always been that way.) that warding off colon cancer is not due TO the fiber in the food. It is due to the fact that because a person can only eat so much food without exploding , that the more fiber one consumes, the less chance one has to fill up on junk that has cell-damaging chemicals in it that can break through the cell walls.

Let me expand on this theory.

I am a rental property maintenance man that has the chance to observe strange things and try to find solutions to problems, in my field. I have observed that cigarette smoke can "dye" vinyl flooring. It gets right into it and you can't get it out. Sunlight causes the same type of damage. No cleaner will clean the effects of these two things. Similarly, too much sun on the skin probably "dyes" into the skin cells and causes the cells to go awry. And cigarette gases in the lungs does to a persons lung cells what cigarette gas did to the vinyl floor. Sounds reasonable, right?

When I was young, I remember hearing that you get cancer from an "irritation", after so many years of it (like 20 years). But I believe that it is not from irritation but from the effects I just described. My HANDS have seen plenty of "irritation" to them. But I haven't heard of too many people getting hand/finger cancer...have you?

So, back to the fiber business. With what I said in mind...I don't believe that the lack of fiber irritates your colon to cause cancer. But it could be that if you aren't filing up on fiber, a person may be ingesting too many chemicals that break through the cell walls of the colon.

Yep, guys, we're in the presence of a true medical genius; Even makes his own "theories". I know I'M in awe....riiiiiiiiiiiight. (© Bill Cosby)

Note the bold part. I'd guess he's never heard of skin cancer.

So it's back to the moniker of "troll" as far as I am concerned.

I tried to reach him. Guess we'll see if anyone's at home or if there's an unannounced vacancy.

I was tempted to tell him he has too many "m"'s in his screen name, but I guess I won't.

OOPS..

Too late.

Dave

ETA I don't fathom trolls, either.

Maybe he's just trying out for Rebecca's recently vacated position?

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Egads. Now I see what Iamme and Trudeau have in common. Lack of facts leads to assumptions that lead to convictions without actual proof.

I am a rental property maintenance man that has the chance to observe strange things and try to find solutions to problems, in my field. I have observed that cigarette smoke can "dye" vinyl flooring. It gets right into it and you can't get it out. Sunlight causes the same type of damage. No cleaner will clean the effects of these two things. Similarly, too much sun on the skin probably "dyes" into the skin cells and causes the cells to go awry. And cigarette gases in the lungs does to a persons lung cells what cigarette gas did to the vinyl floor. Sounds reasonable, right?

Comparing vinyl to skin??? WTH?

Now damage from what can be found in cigarrettes and damage from the sun's radiation will both result in cancer when given the right conditions, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with "dye".

Skin doesn't stay on your body long enough to remain "dyed". The damage from carcinogens or radiation is caused by cellular changes, cellular dna damage. The body has some ways of dealing with this, but can become overwhelmed if the damage is significant enough over time...blah blah.

So Iamme needs to supplement his assumptions with facts to prevent woo ignorance from tainting his own brain cells. Some courses in genetics would go a long ways. There are some good books out there in college or university book stores, but they are pricey. The internet is free but full of crap to sift through.

Some terms to look up online...
Cancer, oncology, etc.

Good paper on skin cancer:
http://www-biology.ucsd.edu/classes/bild10.WI05/cancer.pdf

Iamme, where did you get the misguided notion that eating "junk food" causes cancer? Maybe eating strictly junk food and nothing healthy will cause some nutritional deficiencies that will increase your chances of getting cancer, but what foods do you know of actually cause cancer and still make it on store shelves? Just wondering...

Eos

 

[kmortis]

Skin doesn't stay on your body long enough to remain "dyed". The damage from carcinogens or radiation is caused by cellular changes, cellular dna damage. The body has some ways of dealing with this, but can become overwhelmed if the damage is significant enough over time...blah blah.

Would that also mean that those of us with tatoos are at higher risk because we have most definately dyed a portion of our skin. It's a constant "irritation" (in lamme's definition). Yet, I haven't noticed the FDA, ACA, AMA or their international ilk post any warnings about the "link" between skin cancer and tats. I guess it's yet another piece of evidence that there's an Evil Conspirocy(tm) out to get us, eh?

 

[kmortis]

Iamme, where did you get the misguided notion that eating "junk food" causes cancer?

There is a link between grilled meats and cancer (http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/tip-sheet-cancer-myths) maybe that's what Lamme is getting at, poorly. Most fast food tends toward the grilled meat category, but I've never seen a burnt hamburger from Wendy's. Maybe Burger King and their flame broiling would increase risk, but that's a total speculation.

 

[athon]

Would that also mean that those of us with tatoos are at higher risk because we have most definately dyed a portion of our skin. It's a constant "irritation" (in lamme's definition). Yet, I haven't noticed the FDA, ACA, AMA or their international ilk post any warnings about the "link" between skin cancer and tats. I guess it's yet another piece of evidence that there's an Evil Conspirocy(tm) out to get us, eh?

Tattoo dye is too simple a chemical to act as an irritant.

UV light directly damages DNA, as the chemical bonds in nucleic acid absorb that wavelength of radiation and thereby fail. Increased free-form nucleic acid in skin cells affects nearby melanin-producing cells to increase their production of pigment.

An ellicited effect that influences a biochemical pathway as such is called an 'irritation'.

As for carncinogenic chemicals, the irritation occurs in a diverse number of ways. They all influence biochemical pathways in some way.

Modern tattoo ink is not an irritant (as for older ones, there's such a range...); its homogenous nature and low complexity is not recognized by the immune system, and its rather chemically innocuous nature doesn't influence any of the body's other biochemistry.

Answer your question?

Athon

 

[athon]

There is a link between grilled meats and cancer (http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/tip-sheet-cancer-myths) maybe that's what Lamme is getting at, poorly. Most fast food tends toward the grilled meat category, but I've never seen a burnt hamburger from Wendy's. Maybe Burger King and their flame broiling would increase risk, but that's a total speculation.

Nah, don't bother doing Iamme's thinking on his behalf. I often hesitate before openly labelling somebody a troll, but if there was a badge for this club, his would be red, flashing and making a most annoying noise.

Athon

 

[RandFan]

Troll: There's no such thing as the moon.

Others: Sure there is.

Troll: No, see this book says there isn't.

Others: That's just some idiots opinion. Look, there, in the sky. That is the moon.

Troll: Did you read this book?

Others: No, I don't need to read the book.

Troll: The book says that the moon doesn't exist.

Others: I understand what the book says. It is not important because it is just one persons opinion and is controverted by a lot of emperical evidence.

Troll: It makes sense if you think about it.

Others: No it doesn't.

Troll: Here, I'll post quotes from the book. See, it says right there, no moon.

Others: It doesn't mater what the book says.

Troll: The author of the book makes some persuasive arguments.

Others: The author of the book is an idiot. Here are pictures of the moon. Here are testimonials of scientists who have been to the moon. Look up in the sky, there it is.

Troll: The author says that belief in the moon is a conspiracy and that those scientists are making it up.

Others: The evidence is demonstrable, I can see the moon with my own eyes and there is plenty of other demonstrable evidence.

Troll: Look at this quote, pretty fascinating stuff don't you think?

Others: {sigh} No, I don't think it's interesting at all. Besides it's irrelevant. All of the evidence points to the fact that there is a moon. Hell, I can see it with my own eyes.

Troll: The author didn't write the book to make money.

Others: Yes he did.

 

[kmortis]

Tattoo dye is too simple a chemical to act as an irritant.

UV light directly damages DNA, as the chemical bonds in nucleic acid absorb that wavelength of radiation and thereby fail. Increased free-form nucleic acid in skin cells affects nearby melanin-producing cells to increase their production of pigment.

An ellicited effect that influences a biochemical pathway as such is called an 'irritation'.

As for carncinogenic chemicals, the irritation occurs in a diverse number of ways. They all influence biochemical pathways in some way.

Modern tattoo ink is not an irritant (as for older ones, there's such a range...); its homogenous nature and low complexity is not recognized by the immune system, and its rather chemically innocuous nature doesn't influence any of the body's other biochemistry.

Answer your question?

Athon

Actually, it does. Thanks.

I suspected as such and posted it as a facetious retort to the sunlight "dyeing" theory.

 

[Ducky]

Troll: There's no such thing as the moon.

Others: Sure there is.

Troll: No, see this book says there isn't.

Others: That's just some idiots opinion. Look, there, in the sky. That is the moon.

Troll: Did you read this book?

Others: No, I don't need to read the book.

Troll: The book says that the moon doesn't exist.

Others: I understand what the book says. It is not important because it is just one persons opinion and is controverted by a lot of emperical evidence.

Troll: It makes sense if you think about it.

Others: No it doesn't.

Troll: Here, I'll post quotes from the book. See, it says right there, no moon.

Others: It doesn't mater what the book says.

Troll: The author of the book makes some persuasive arguments.

Others: The author of the book is an idiot. Here are pictures of the moon. Here are testimonials of scientists who have been to the moon. Look up in the sky, there it is.

Troll: The author says that belief in the moon is a conspiracy and that those scientists are making it up.

Others: The evidence is demonstrable, I can see the moon with my own eyes and there is plenty of other demonstrable evidence.

Troll: Look at this quote, pretty fascinating stuff don't you think?

Others: {sigh} No, I don't think it's interesting at all. Besides it's irrelevant. All of the evidence points to the fact that there is a moon. Hell, I can see it with my own eyes.

Troll: The author didn't write the book to make money.

Others: Yes he did.

*applause*

That's about the best summation of this thread I could ever have read.

Excellent.

 

[athon]

Why do I get a picture of Iamme posting this drivel, then sitting back and giggling like a five-year-old who just got away with saying the word 'bum' out loud?

The ignorance of some trolls I think is innate. I find it hard to believe that it's not a put-on in this case.

Athon

 

[tracer]

*applause*

That's about the best summation of this thread I could ever have read.

Except for the "yes, there is a moon" part.

Everybody knows the moon doesn't really exist.

 

[Iamme]

Hi Iamme. I'm not trying to be contrarian to be contrarian but there is just nothing there. All of his argument quickly fall apart. What is "vibrant health"? I don't even know what that means.

Yes! I do.

Please to explain what you mean?

Not sure about what? That antibiotics don't work? That vacines don't kill viruses? That we haven't really eradicated polio, smallpox, and other serious diseases? Come on.

"Somewhere"? You assume much.

Did *I* coin the vibrant health wording or did Kevin? But I'll answer it just the same. Vibrant health would be like comparing " ("good"health with and "A" and vibrant health then would be compared to an A+.
..............
Um...I see what you referenced from "my" post is not up above, so now I don't know what answers to give you on the rest of it. Why doesn't clicking on "quote" bring up someones entire post? How do you do this?

 

[Iamme]

Is this board loading up slow for you guys too? It' s driving me nuts!

Regarding my post above, for now, I'll just have to ccp. But when I do, the bold print from someone elses post won't come up bold, when you just ccp.