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Iraq War a Mistake

12AX7 said:
Another southern woman running? Hillary will be intimidated now for sure.
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Graham has the courage to say what no one else will say.

“This is a war we’re fighting, it is not a counterterrorism operation! This is not Somalia; this is not Yemen; this is a turning point in the war on terror. Our strategy will fail yet again. This president needs to rise to the occasion before we all get killed back here at home.”

It's true. ISIS is preparing an invasionary force as we speak. There are thousands of ships and military aircraft capable of breaking through Americas defenses just waiting for the order to come to America and kill us all.

You may call Graham a demagogue. I call him a patriot and I call you a traitor. If you love your country then for the love of the god that gave us this great nation (and the means to deplete the native population) support the bombing of Iran, the invasion of Syria and Iraq, deregulation of banks and wall street and the elimination of Iodine from salt, otherwise we all die.

The libs are not getting this, let me spell it out D - I - E, "die", you know, like death. Painful torture and then death. Is that really what you want?

They're still not getting it.

satire
 
ponderingturtle said:
But how many of them will Jeb hire?
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I read a 'Washington Post' article a few days ago that said 17 of the 20 top Jeb Bush advisors either worked for his brother and/or his father.

The apple does not fall too far from the tree, even though Jeb Bush proclaimed that "I will be my own man".
 
Crossbow said:
I read a 'Washington Post' article a few days ago that said 17 of the 20 top Jeb Bush advisors either worked for his brother and/or his father.

The apple does not fall too far from the tree, even though Jeb Bush proclaimed that "I will be my own man".
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Of course he will want to be seen as that, everyone hates his brother.
 
16.5 said:
Funny that Jeb gets all the criticisms when the fact is that the only Candidate who voted for the war was Hillary Clinton.
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Did you know that none of the founding fathers had photo ID for voting purposes?
 
RandFan said:
Except I can actually debate using facts and you can only respond with elementary school yard rhetoric.
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Ok.

RandFan said:
1.) The intelligence did not justify an invasion. Which is why Clinton didn't invade and why Bush was an idiot for invading. End of story.

2.) It is therefore irrational to justify invasion based on Clinton era intelligence.

3.) You cannot rebut the facts. Empty rhetoric in 3, 2, 1....
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Followed immediately by argument by bare assertion. :rolleyes:

We were talking about the intelligence that Bush & Co, and the others that voted in favor of the invasion relied on, including the intelligence that Clinton relied on in authorizing Operation Desert Fox.

That intelligence included, but was not limited to the Operation Desert Fox intelligence (among other evidence/intelligence that predated the Bush administration)

So SG's claim that "the intel was a product of Bush/Cheney et al." is obviously false.

Which was my point, and one that you missed while angrily intervening in the middle of the discussion without taking the time to understand the issues.
 
RandFan said:
Did you know that none of the founding fathers had photo ID for voting purposes?
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Wrong thread.

This thread is about the Iraq War, and my post was about how Hillary Clinton voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
"Shut Up And Sing" is an interesting snapshot of what happened when the Dixie Chicks began to question our involvement in the war.

Worth a watch if you can find it somewhere.
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Getting the Dixie Chicks to go the hell away, period, was one of the few good outcomes of the Iraq War.
 
16.5 said:
Followed immediately by argument by bare assertion. :rolleyes:
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:rolleyes:

Facts are not "bare" assertion.

Facts:

  • Clinton DIDN'T invade
  • Clinton DIDN'T call for invasion.

That intelligence included, but was not limited to the Operation Desert Fox intelligence (among other evidence/intelligence that predated the Bush administration)
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The intelligence that justified the war was manufactured. The Clinton intel couldn't and didn't.

So SG's claim that "the intel was a product of Bush/Cheney et al." is obviously false.
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The intel that was used as justification was in fact a product of Bush/Cheney.
 
RandFan said:
Because it's relevant to point out that people who couldn't vote for a war didn't.

It's called mockery.
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It is called reminding people that Hillary Clinton voted in favor if the Iraq War Resolution.

Which you just did again.

That is some fine mockery, my friend. Just don't throw me in that there br'iar patch again!

:D
 
RandFan said:
:rolleyes:

Facts are not "bare" assertion.

Facts:

  • Clinton DIDN'T invade
  • Clinton DIDN'T call for invasion.
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Yet he bombed Iraq and signed the regime change act, two FACTS that Bush and the Congress relied upon in approving the attack.

Curious.....
 
16.5 said:
It is called reminding people that Hillary Clinton voted in favor if the Iraq War Resolution.

Which you just did again.
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Damn good. I think people should know she voted for the war. How is that a problem? BTW: I don't like Hillary. I never have.

That is some fine mockery, my friend.
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Given that your premise is fatuous, yeah, it is, thank you.

:D
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:rolleyes: :confused: :) :D :eye-poppi :boggled:
 
16.5 said:
Yet he bombed Iraq and signed the regime change act, two FACTS that Bush and the Congress relied upon in approving the attack.
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Two facts he SHOULDN'T have relied on. He could have relied on WWII intel it would have made about as much sense. Interestingly, for Bush, it would have made sense.

 
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.” -- George W. Bush, April 9, 1999, on the US intervention in Kosovo

"The mission needs to be clear and the exit strategy obvious." --George W. Bush

16.5
Some more facts for you.[/FONT]

  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bush understood the importance of an exit strategy.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bush didn't have an exist strategy.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bush invaded Iraq anyway.[/FONT]
 
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Bogative said:
Sure he did, after the invasion. A lot of good that does anyone.

I just quoted Hans Blix giving a speech before the UN Security Council 12 days before the invasion stating that Iraq was not meeting their obligations under UN Resolution 1441.

One month before the invasion Hans Blix said this about Iraq not cooperating with the inspectors and their agreement required by 1441:

You can post as many links as you want to Hans Blix saying what he thinks after the invasion, what matters is what he said before the invasion.

The UN pulled their inspectors out in 1998 because Iraq was not complying with the cease-fire. Four years later they were allowed back in and Hussein continued to fail to comply with the resolution. At least according to Blix prior to the invasion.
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Blix's words are easily cherry picked. What he said from the beginning was there was no evidence of WMDs and no evidence there weren't any. But he did not support invading Iraq and instead wanted inspections to continue.

The Guardian 20 December 2002
chief inspector Hans Blix said today.
"If the UK and the US ... have evidence, then one would expect that they would be able to tell us where this stuff is," Mr Blix told BBC radio.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell yesterday accused Iraq of "deception" and "lying" in the 12,000-page weapons inventory it handed to the UN.

In his first appraisal of the dossier, Mr Blix noted that Iraq maintained it had no nuclear, chemical or biological weapons programs "and that none have been designed, procured, produced or stored" since the last inspections regime ended four years ago. Mr Blix said that western governments claimed to have evidence to the contrary, but that inspectors were currently not in a position "to confirm Iraq's statements, nor in possession of evidence to disprove it." The inspectors "don't get all the support we need" from western governments, he said.

"The most important thing that governments like the U.K. (United Kingdom) or the US could give us would be to tell us sites where they are convinced that they keep some weapons of mass destruction," he said. "This is what we want to have.

"They have all the methods to listen to telephone conversations, they have spies, they have satellites, so they have a lot of sources which we do not have," he added.
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You seem to be interpreting that as agreeing with the assessment there were WMDs and/or Saddam was the problem. I interpret it as a very diplomatic way of saying the Bush and Blair administrations were the ones not cooperating.
 
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RandFan said:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.” -- George W. Bush, April 9, 1999, on the US intervention in Kosovo

"The mission needs to be clear and the exit strategy obvious." --George W. Bush

16.5
Some more facts for you.
[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Clinton didn't invade Iraq because there was no exist strategy.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bush understood the importance of an exit strategy.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bush didn't have an exist strategy.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bush invaded Iraq anyway.
    [/FONT]
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Bush had a strategy, it was the people love us and democracy and peace breaks out. That was what they thought was going to happen.
 
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