Indyref 2: This time it's personal.

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Don't like the Scots very much, do you?

Oh he is pretty gentle compared to nicola sturgeons Twitter and the Daily Express comments section.

Give the English a vote so we can tell you to f off is the prevailing mood.

And yet Better together because we are all one big happy family apparently is what we are supposed to believe.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I like the Scots very much, I dislike the SNP and SNP policy though.

Note i said policy not policies. The SNP's only policy is to break apart the United Kingdom - they pursue that policy single mindedly regardless of the likely disastrous outcome. They will twist any event, Brexit included, into another reason for them to pursue their one, tunnel vision, aim.

Funny the SNP have a manifesto with more than one policy in it. Have you read it? I think you may be getting confused with your beloved Brexiteers who have one policy and zero clue.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yes, breaking away from a larger democratic structure so that power flows more to a single ethnicity is so unenlightened.... what was that thing called Brexit? At least Scotland can argue they wish to remain part of the world, but you seem to be claiming a right to drag neighbors down to the bottom of dark pits, because.... yes, here it is, way down below any semblance of reason: "England Prevail!" Oh, my, and no fig leaf to cover the contradiction. Oops!

Just to be clear there is no transfer of power to a single ethnicity planned. Scots citizenship is not ethnicity based. If a couple of million English folk want to move there the more the merrier.

 

[MCel58]

I just wonder if this will push the negotiations to form the executive in the NI assembly and the Brexit talks with the EU about an Irish border into the area of special status for Ireland. If nothing else surely the Unionists there recognise the part that Brexit played in their latest elections and if they want to avoid further losses will also start to put pressure on May.
Theresa May may want to ignore the remain majorities in both Scotland and NI but the voters in both just see this as yet another time that their votes are ignored and perhaps this is the time that change is really possible.
Before the 2014 referendum the polls for Independence were 28% once the Independence campaign got going that became over 45%. This time it starts at 50% and will only get better with every loss that is reported from the Brexit negotiations.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I just wonder if this will push the negotiations to form the executive in the NI assembly and the Brexit talks with the EU about an Irish border into the area of special status for Ireland. If nothing else surely the Unionists there recognise the part that Brexit played in their latest elections and if they want to avoid further losses will also start to put pressure on May.
Theresa May may want to ignore the remain majorities in both Scotland and NI but the voters in both just see this as yet another time that their votes are ignored and perhaps this is the time that change is really possible.
Before the 2014 referendum the polls for Independence were 28% once the Independence campaign got going that became over 45%. This time it starts at 50% and will only get better with every loss that is reported from the Brexit negotiations.

To be honest I remain convinced that either solution is a bit of a mess. The best hope might be that an independent Scotland in the EU and some special arrangement for Ireland makes the idea of a holdout England and Wales not in the EU a bit silly and we end up with what I see as being the best solution all round - independent Scotland and rUK both in the EU. I personally wouldn't mind a united Ireland thrown in that mix either but it's not my fight and up to the people of that island what they want to do in that regard.

I still believe, as I always have, that ultimately the people of Scotland will not vote to leave the UK as for many it remains just too much of a step into the unknown. However events outside Scotland seem intent on making staying just as much a step into the unknown and worse still, binding ourselves to a political movement that seems to represent everything we vote against every few years.

It's May Trump Farage Le Pen Wilders Boris Davis the EDL UKIP Tories the Daily Mail and the Express lining up as the opposition at the moment. That's not exactly Real Madrid.

 

[Strawberry]

To be honest I remain convinced that either solution is a bit of a mess. The best hope might be that an independent Scotland in the EU and some special arrangement for Ireland makes the idea of a holdout England and Wales not in the EU a bit silly and we end up with what I see as being the best solution all round - independent Scotland and rUK both in the EU. I personally wouldn't mind a united Ireland thrown in that mix either but it's not my fight and up to the people of that island what they want to do in that regard.

I still believe, as I always have, that ultimately the people of Scotland will not vote to leave the UK as for many it remains just too much of a step into the unknown. However events outside Scotland seem intent on making staying just as much a step into the unknown and worse still, binding ourselves to a political movement that seems to represent everything we vote against every few years.

It's May Trump Farage Le Pen Wilders Boris Davis the EDL UKIP Tories the Daily Mail and the Express lining up as the opposition at the moment. That's not exactly Real Madrid.

The largest opposition party in the Republic, Fianna Fáil, are currently producing a white paper on the subject of Irish unity dealing with the nuts and bolts issues like the economy, education system, health, etc. This being Fianna Fáil, I know they're only doing it because SF are becoming an electoral threat to them south of the border, but even so something constructive might come out of it.

According to the most recent opinion poll support for a united Ireland in the north stands at 44%, and IMO Scottish independence if it happens, plus the effects of Brexit, could easily push that over 50%. And contrary to what Abaddon claims on here, if the North votes for unity there is zero chance that voters in the Republic will turn us away.

 

[Darat]

Just to be clear there is no transfer of power to a single ethnicity planned. Scots citizenship is not ethnicity based. If a couple of million English folk want to move there the more the merrier.

But not Welsh, Northern Irish etc?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Just in case anyone still is under the misapprehension that the hatred flows from Scotland to England or that we are Better Together here is some of the commentary on the stories today from the bottom half of the internet.

Time to invest south of the border, look at bringing our shipping and submarine industry south just in case she gets her way, when they start losing jobs they will be crying into their porridge

I wonder how much the EU pays the Poison Dwarf to cause all this trouble.

Time for Mrs May to show she has an iron fist and let them all know who the boss is.

Quite right Nigel... she is a evil little poison dwarf

The EU will not want another basket case economy to support and if they leave the Scots should be forced to pay for the vote, repay their share of the current national debt which they disproportionately benefit from under the Barnet formula and put up their own currency! They will not survive outside the union and will not be welcome inside the EU so just what is all the fuss about? Its all about Sturgeons ego pure and simple!

This toxic gnome should be in a straight jacket.
Whatever she is using it does damage the brain.
She could destroy Scotland.
She must be on the EU payroll like Cameron and Blair.
Up her brussels.

Scotland already lives on handouts from England!

That would be 2000000 less Remainers to worry about. Go for it Girl.

Should I go on?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

But not Welsh, Northern Irish etc?

Every and all nationality welcomed. I specifically mentioned the nationality we are accused of being 'anti' to point out the vacuousness of that suggestion.

 

[Giz]

Just in case anyone still is under the misapprehension that the hatred flows from Scotland to England or that we are Better Together here is some of the commentary on the stories today from the bottom half of the internet.















Should I go on?

Someone trying to break up a country is bound to be unpopular.

 

[Darat]

Every and all nationality welcomed. I specifically mentioned the nationality we are accused of being 'anti' to point out the vacuousness of that suggestion.

So not people from the Falklands.......



Seriously - I know there is one NI person here who doesn't like it but the word "British" does encompass pretty much all the citizens of the UK. So you could have said: "If a couple of million British folk want to move there the more the merrier."

It would help all the silliness of the anti-English/anti-Scottish malarkey that gets thrown around. It's for that reason I've tried to standardise on rUK - for a UK without Scotland and nuScotland for the new independent country Scotland. It is genuinely an attempt to try and reduce the level of heat this discussion always causes.

 

[Darat]

Had a quick look - 38% of folk in Scotland voted to leave the EU. Anyone know what the crossover is between Scottish folk who voted leave and voted yes to Scottish independence? (And of course vice-a-versa.)

 

[Craig B]

Someone trying to break up a country is bound to be unpopular.

And people trying to take a country away from the British Union are to be called toxic gnomes and poison dwarves? They're bound to be, I suppose.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Someone trying to break up a country is bound to be unpopular.

That behaviour is ok in your book then?

Do you want me to post the comments on rebuilding Hadrians wall and electrifying it too? Exactly how that is targeted at someone rather than the whole country would be a delight to hear.

I'll put you down as agreeing with them for now then.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Someone trying to break up a country is bound to be unpopular.

So not people from the Falklands.......



Seriously - I know there is one NI person here who doesn't like it but the word "British" does encompass pretty much all the citizens of the UK. So you could have said: "If a couple of million British folk want to move there the more the merrier."

It would help all the silliness of the anti-English/anti-Scottish malarkey that gets thrown around. It's for that reason I've tried to standardise on rUK - for a UK without Scotland and nuScotland for the new independent country Scotland. It is genuinely an attempt to try and reduce the level of heat this discussion always causes.

I had assumed that any Welsh or Northern Irish person wouldn't have to be told they are welcome.

If you want to fight the battle for England not being the UK then I am with you. The place to start would appear to be with those presumably English commentators who seem to think it is.

 

[Strawberry]

So not people from the Falklands.......



Seriously - I know there is one NI person here who doesn't like it but the word "British" does encompass pretty much all the citizens of the UK. So you could have said: "If a couple of million British folk want to move there the more the merrier."

It would help all the silliness of the anti-English/anti-Scottish malarkey that gets thrown around. It's for that reason I've tried to standardise on rUK - for a UK without Scotland and nuScotland for the new independent country Scotland. It is genuinely an attempt to try and reduce the level of heat this discussion always causes.

No it doesn't. We may all be UK citizens but the UK happens to encompass six Irish counties which include an indigenous population who are not, and never will be, British.

 

[Architect]

Do you want me to post the comments on rebuilding Hadrians wall and electrifying it too? Exactly how that is targeted at someone rather than the whole country would be a delight to hear.

I find it amusing that such posters seem unaware as to the actual location of Hadrian's Wall.

 

[Rolfe]

Had a quick look - 38% of folk in Scotland voted to leave the EU. Anyone know what the crossover is between Scottish folk who voted leave and voted yes to Scottish independence? (And of course vice-a-versa.)

There are statistics, from at least one properly-weighted opinion poll. I'll see if I can find the details later, but Yes was quite strongly correlated to Remain while No was quite strongly correlated to Leave.

I think Yes/Leave is only about 11% of the population.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I find it amusing that such posters seem unaware as to the actual location of Hadrian's Wall.

Oh don't worry when someone pointed that out to them they suggested building TWO. One on the border and one on the historical site.

Seems like an awful lot of effort to express unhappiness with one person but I guess that is OK and just proves that the SNP and independence campaigners are anti-English, you see.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

There are statistics, from at least one properly-weighted opinion poll. I'll see if I can find the details later, but Yes was quite strongly correlated to Remain while No was quite strongly correlated to Leave.

I think Yes/Leave is only about 11% of the population.

I saw the line touted today that the people who voted Remain only did so as a strategic vote to get an excuse to hold another Indyref and actually the country wants out of the EU as much as everywhere else. You couldn't make this stuff up!