Indyref 2: This time it's personal.

[Andy_Ross]

To everyone I know in England, Britain and UK mean England with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland being lesser parts.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

We seem to be misunderstanding each other - I thought you were commenting on those that repeatedly use "England" to mean the "bits of the UK not including Scotland.". Certainly in many threads here it was the SNP/Independence side people who would keep saying "England" when they should have said "England, Wales, NI and the various other bits and pieces that make up the UK".

Given that the SNP and Plaid are sister parties, I don't think they could be accused of acting as if Wales doesn't exist. The SNP are accused of a lot of things that don't make sense mind you. Please bear in mind that the SNP is not the same as all supporters of independence. They are not responsible for what every person says nor is everyone who supports independence tied to every word uttered by the SNP.

A quick google throws up next to no mention of SNP and the word 'England' other than a light-hearted suggestion that they might stand some candidates there and then a lot of commentators talking about creating trade barriers with England or a border with England.

Based on that your beef might be with the Telegraph - 111 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1W 0DT. I strangely couldn't find the address of their Scottish office. Can't think why.

 

[Darat]

Given that the SNP and Plaid are sister parties, I don't think they could be accused of acting as if Wales doesn't exist.

Yet that is exactly what those on this forum did time and time again over the many years of threads on Scottish independence.

The SNP are accused of a lot of things that don't make sense mind you. Please bear in mind that the SNP is not the same as all supporters of independence. They are not responsible for what every person says nor is everyone who supports independence tied to every word uttered by the SNP.

Of course.

....snip...

Based on that your beef might be with the Telegraph - 111 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1W 0DT. I strangely couldn't find the address of their Scottish office. Can't think why.

Eh?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yet that is exactly what those on this forum did time and time again over the many years of threads on Scottish independence.

As far as I know none of the forum members here speak for the SNP.

Of course.

See above then.

Eh?

The Telegraph were the most prominent of names in the commentators who mistake the UK for England list. They would seem a more obvious target for your ire than the SNP then.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

The Telegraph were the most prominent of names in the commentators who mistake the UK for England list. They would seem a more obvious target for your ire than the SNP then.

"ire"?

 

[Planigale]

Now can we have one year with no discussion of this topic before it all begins again? Even the pro indy side might do better with a bit of a break so all the arguments come over a bit fresher.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

"ire"?

Quizzical responses?

Exasperation?

Whatever it is you have the wrong target in the SNP.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Now can we have one year with no discussion of this topic before it all begins again? Even the pro indy side might do better with a bit of a break so all the arguments come over a bit fresher.

Yeah, no I don't think we will.

I think we will have the full and proper debate that the topic deserves.

 

[ceptimus]

The SNP's hatred seems to be mainly focused on England - and Westminster in particular - they don't seem to be overly concerned with Wales or Northern Ireland.

 

[Architect]

Hatred? Cites, please.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The SNP's hatred seems to be mainly focused on England - and Westminster in particular - they don't seem to be overly concerned with Wales or Northern Ireland.

Evidence free claims from our Brexiteer in Chief as always.

The only hatred I have seen today has been from Unionists.

 

[Craig B]

The SNP's hatred seems to be mainly focused on England - and Westminster in particular - they don't seem to be overly concerned with Wales or Northern Ireland.

It's not hate, nor anything resembling hate. It is the justifiable and very belated undertaking to undo the current "British" constitution, and to dismantle the centralised and supremacist state which that constitution conjured into being in the years after the political settlement of 1688. The principles laid down at that time made the English parliament and English concepts of law intolerant of any other centre of sovereignty in these islands, so that everything was suppressed, and the development of a more relaxed federal model was rendered impossible.

That structure could not survive the loss of Empire, so it is now being dismantled; a process which will be completed, even if (Heaven forbid!) Scotland fails to secure independence on this occasion, and Ireland remains, for the present, divided by a border.

Westminster supremacy, as described below, is what is finally being undone, and high time too.

The principle of Parliamentary sovereignty^WP means ... that Parliament ... has, under the English constitution, the right to make or unmake any law whatever: and, further, that no person or body is recognised by the law of England as having a right to override or set aside the legislation of Parliament.
...
After 1689 English parliamentary supremacy became evident in the relation of the English parliament to those of Scotland and Ireland ... the issue was settled by the Union of the parliaments of England and Scotland in 1707 which created a new British parliament, though "in essence it was just an extension of the English parliament" ... The autonomy of the Parliament of Ireland also came under attack and the Declaratory Act 1720 made the Irish parliament a dependency. The so-called Constitution of 1782 removed British parliamentary supremacy over Ireland for a short period but then the Irish parliament was merged with Britain's in the Acts of Union 1800.​

 

[Strawberry]

The SNP's hatred seems to be mainly focused on England - and Westminster in particular - they don't seem to be overly concerned with Wales or Northern Ireland.

After the level of frothing at the mouth rage and hate I've seen directed at Nicola Sturgeon online today, I can only see your comment as willful blindness and hypocrasy.

 

[dudalb]

Sturgeon is banking on Westminster saying no to IndyRef-2 prior to Brexit - that will give her the stage to moan about ill-treatment from the English for at least another two years.

May should call her bluff and say, 'Okay - get on with it as soon as you like.'

Scotland will either then vote no again, and we'll all be rid of Sturgeon, or they'll vote yes and at least England will be rid of her.

Don't like the Scots very much, do you?

 

[Architect]

Reuters is reporting a Times piece, in turn quoting an "insider" source, suggesting that TM is going to tell NS to take a hike. Now of course the Scottish Council elections are looming, so that's a bit of an open goal for the SNP to aim at - if it's true.

 

[imodium]

Reuters is reporting a Times piece, in turn quoting an "insider" source, suggesting that TM is going to tell NS to take a hike. Now of course the Scottish Council elections are looming, so that's a bit of an open goal for the SNP to aim at - if it's true.

She already did it in the afternoon, it's not as if the tories will gain a seat up there anyways, contrary to the london media Ruth Davidson isn't popular north of watford, coming 3rd and 4th the two times shes run in glasgow in an attempt to beat farages record of humiliation while being party leader.

 

[ceptimus]

Don't like the Scots very much, do you?

I like the Scots very much, I dislike the SNP and SNP policy though.

Note i said policy not policies. The SNP's only policy is to break apart the United Kingdom - they pursue that policy single mindedly regardless of the likely disastrous outcome. They will twist any event, Brexit included, into another reason for them to pursue their one, tunnel vision, aim.

 

[Rolfe]

She already did it in the afternoon, it's not as if the tories will gain a seat up there anyways, contrary to the london media Ruth Davidson isn't popular north of watford, coming 3rd and 4th the two times shes run in glasgow in an attempt to beat farages record of humiliation while being party leader.

I don't think you understand how the Scottish council elections work. The Single Transferable Vote guarantees the Tories quite a lot of seats.

 

[Amazer]

I like the Scots very much, I dislike the SNP and SNP policy though.

Note i said policy not policies. The SNP's only policy is to break apart the United Kingdom - they pursue that policy single mindedly regardless of the likely disastrous outcome. They will twist any event, Brexit included, into another reason for them to pursue their one, tunnel vision, aim.

You can actually say this with a straight face?

 

[Hlafordlaes]

I like the Scots very much, I dislike the SNP and SNP policy though.

Note i said policy not policies. The SNP's only policy is to break apart the United Kingdom - they pursue that policy single mindedly regardless of the likely disastrous outcome. They will twist any event, Brexit included, into another reason for them to pursue their one, tunnel vision, aim.

Yes, breaking away from a larger democratic structure so that power flows more to a single ethnicity is so unenlightened.... what was that thing called Brexit? At least Scotland can argue they wish to remain part of the world, but you seem to be claiming a right to drag neighbors down to the bottom of dark pits, because.... yes, here it is, way down below any semblance of reason: "England Prevail!" Oh, my, and no fig leaf to cover the contradiction. Oops!