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Indian astrology Birth Chart system ?

hopkinsworld

Scholar
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
54
Has anyone tried to disaprove the birth chart system of Indian astrology ? I don't mean the basic description of your personality or what you read on newspapers but on which dates(e.g. jan 2006- dec 2009) you will make money or be successful and on which dates you will not be successful. They call this thing "dasha" in the Indian astrology system.

en.wikipedia .org/wiki/Jyoti%E1%B9%A3a
en.wikipedia .org/wiki/Dasha_(astrology)

I paid an Indian astrology to make my life prediction report based on my time of birth and birth place. So far it has been accurate in terms of which dates I made money and on which I did not.

I also have noticed that if your prediction report says something like "This is a good period for your career & finance." The efficacy of such statements depends on strength of your planets and houses in your chart, if the planet in your chart is "exalted" it would be the highest strength for the planet and efficacy of that statement will be 100%, but if its exalted and strength of the house in which that planet is located is low, the efficacy of that statement can go down by some percentage. It your planet is in "debliated" dignity, the efficacy of that statement will be the exact opposite, so that would mean "This is not a good period for your career and finance". There are also other variables like planet lords, house strength, Dignity of planets etc. I think the first thing to look in the chart is no those statements but how much is the strength of the planets and the house in which they are in and then there is another thing called Ascendant or rising sign which you find in newspapers and can only be found if you knew your birth time and place of birth.

I'm afraid there are alot of variables in birth chart system which scientists are maybe not paying attention. Yes, I agree such statements are not falsifiable and astrology can't be made a theory using scientific method. Maybe scientists can see which stuff works and which stuff is woo ? :)

Has anyone tried ? Btw I'm a skeptic and I think certain aspects of Indian astrology somewhat works.
 
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Has anyone tried to disaprove the birth chart system of Indian astrology ? I don't mean the basic description of your personality or what you read on newspapers but on which dates(e.g. jan 2006- dec 2009) you will make money or be successful and on which dates you will not be successful. They call this thing "dasha" in the Indian astrology system.

en.wikipedia .org/wiki/Jyoti%E1%B9%A3a
en.wikipedia .org/wiki/Dasha_(astrology)

I paid an Indian astrology to make my life prediction report based on my time of birth and birth place. So far it has been accurate in terms of which dates I made money and on which I did not.

I also have noticed that if your prediction report says something like "This is a good period for your career & finance." The efficacy of such statements depends on strength of your planets and houses in your chart, if the planet in your chart is "exalted" it would be the highest strength for the planet and efficacy of that statement will be 100%, but if its exalted and strength of the house in which that planet is located is low, the efficacy of that statement can go down by some percentage. It your planet is in "debliated" dignity, the efficacy of that statement will be the exact opposite, so that would mean "This is not a good period for your career and finance". There are also other variables like planet lords, house strength, Dignity of planets etc.

I'm afraid there are alot of variables in birth chart system which scientists are maybe not paying attention. Yes, I agree such statements are not falsifiable and astrology can't be made a theory using scientific method. Maybe scientists can see which stuff works and which stuff is woo ? :)

Has anyone tried ? Btw I'm a skeptic and I think certain aspects of Indian astrology somewhat works.

No need to try. Astrology is bunk. A car going past your house has more effect on you that all the planets put together. What are these ''certain aspects''? The usual coincidences?
 
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A skeptic does not believe that astrology works, due to a complete lack of evidence.
 
...

I paid an Indian astrology to make my life prediction report based on my time of birth and birth place. So far it has been accurate in terms of which dates I made money and on which I did not.

...


Did you actually keep records of this, or are you going from memory? Also, there is a good chance that you were more willing to actively pursue financial interests on the dates listed, simply because you believed they would be successful. As Wayne Gretsky once said regarding ice hockey, "100% of the shots you do not take, do not go in."

It would definitely be easy to to test this, simply have someone generate a birth chart for several of the forumites, and compare it to our actual financial records. One person would collect birth information, anonymize it, and send it on the astrologer. A different person would collect financial data. The two could then be compared.

Granted, this isn't a strict protocol and in no way should be meant for anything other than an initial survey of accuracy, but it should at least give a general sense of whether there is anything worth pursuing.
 
Has anyone tried to disaprove the birth chart system of Indian astrology ? I don't mean the basic description of your personality or what you read on newspapers...

How is that different from this:
...but on which dates(e.g. jan 2006- dec 2009) you will make money or be successful and on which dates you will not be successful. They call this thing "dasha" in the Indian astrology system.

Because "dasha" sounds exactly like the astrological tarradiddle widely printed in U.S. periodicals.


I paid an Indian astrology to make my life prediction report based on my time of birth and birth place. So far it has been accurate in terms of which dates I made money and on which I did not.

There are any number of ways this can be explained--as Hokulele has demonstrated above.

You aren't going to ask us next if the Indian rope trick is real, are you?
 
Did you actually keep records of this, or are you going from memory? Also, there is a good chance that you were more willing to actively pursue financial interests on the dates listed, simply because you believed they would be successful. As Wayne Gretsky once said regarding ice hockey, "100% of the shots you do not take, do not go in."

Yes I've the record and No, I approached the astrologer after I've had made the money and when that period was over. I didn't even knew the dates btw. When he sent me the report the dates listed there were the exact time I made the money and after that time I didn't made anything. So the record already had the dates listed when I was successful.
 
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Yes I've the record and No, I approached the astrologer after I've had made the money and when that period was over. I didn't even knew the dates btw. When he sent me the report the dates listed there were the exact time I made the money and after that time I didn't made anything. So the record already had the dates listed when I was successful.


How specific were the dates? In your opening post, you listed Jan. 2006 - Dec. 2009. That is a huge range, and it is entirely possible to demonstrate that you were both more successful and less successful with such a large amount of data. For example, I used to own a business. Using those dates in particular, my best month ever fell within that range, but is it fair to say that the prediction was accurate, given the large number of months included in that? In this post, you say the dates were "exact". How exact?

And the last thing I would be skeptical of here, you gave him your birth information and presumably your name. If these predictions were made after the fact, and he had that much personal data, it would be extremely trivial to find out basic financial data.
 
I'm a skeptic and I think certain aspects of Indian astrology somewhat works.
How can you possibly both be a skeptic and think this works? Please explain what possible methodology there could be that would allow predictions about what happens in your life to be made based on what day and time you were born. Just think, as a skeptic, about the huge range of events that happen in the world that affect your ability to make money in any given time period, or get a job, or whatever. How could your birth however many years ago have anything to do with that? Skeptically speaking, it just doesn't make any sense at all. Please try...
 
How can you possibly both be a skeptic and think this works? Please explain what possible methodology there could be that would allow predictions about what happens in your life to be made based on what day and time you were born. Just think, as a skeptic, about the huge range of events that happen in the world that affect your ability to make money in any given time period, or get a job, or whatever. How could your birth however many years ago have anything to do with that? Skeptically speaking, it just doesn't make any sense at all. Please try...

Not to mention what the nature is of this mysterious force that supposedly emanates from the planets.
 
I'm afraid there are alot of variables in birth chart system which scientists are maybe not paying attention. Yes, I agree such statements are not falsifiable and astrology can't be made a theory using scientific method.
On the contrary astrology makes testable claims, these claims have been tested scientifically, and they don't stand up. This is true of "standard" astrology, and there's no evidence to suggest it's not also true of Indian astrology.

For example, to test whether the dates you've been given really are accurate or whether your perception that they are accurate is just due to confirmation bias and the Forer Effect, you could do the following blind test:

1. Get an astrologer to produce, say, 5 different charts for yourself and 4 other people. Give them to an impartial third party to hold.

2. You and the other 4 people keep a record of significant events for the period covered by the charts.

3. The third party gives copies of all 5 charts to all 5 of you, identified only by a number i.e. none of you know which of the 5 charts is yours.

4. Each of you picks out the chart that seems to match your record of events most closely.

5. The third party then compares the one each of you picked with the one that's really yours and sees if you've correctly identified your charts.

By chance you would expect 1 in 5 to pick the chart that is actually theirs; if significantly more do so that is evidence that the charts really are accurate.

Any astrologer who could consistently produce charts that could be correctly identified in such a test more often than would be expected by chance would have shown astrology really does work. They could also win the JREF $1 million dollar challenge, and several other smaller prizes. No astrologer has ever passed such a test.

http://www.astrology-and-science.com/hpage.htm
 
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Anyway, it's not the sign when you were born that counts, it's the sign you were conceived under that is important. I was conceived under a ''Keep Off The Grass'' sign
 
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Yes I've the record and No, I approached the astrologer after I've had made the money and when that period was over. I didn't even knew the dates btw. When he sent me the report the dates listed there were the exact time I made the money and after that time I didn't made anything. So the record already had the dates listed when I was successful.

These sound like post-dictions not predictions.
 
How specific were the dates? In your opening post, you listed Jan. 2006 - Dec. 2009. That is a huge range, and it is entirely possible to demonstrate that you were both more successful and less successful with such a large amount of data. For example, I used to own a business. Using those dates in particular, my best month ever fell within that range, but is it fair to say that the prediction was accurate, given the large number of months included in that? In this post, you say the dates were "exact". How exact?

And the last thing I would be skeptical of here, you gave him your birth information and presumably your name. If these predictions were made after the fact, and he had that much personal data, it would be extremely trivial to find out basic financial data.

For example this is the range he gave me

• From May 16, 2009 to July 15, 2010. --> This is the period of Venus
From July 16, 2010 to November 21, 2010 --> This is the period of Sun

• The sub–period of Venus till July 15, 2010 is a better period for your career & finance and the later sub-period of Sun is not a good period for your domestic life & career. Your expenditure will also be high.

It can be in approximation and a little difference does not matter. This is the range which is in the report plus I have a software which makes my birth chart and tells me the same range. So I know the range will be the same no matter which astrologer you consult. I had a small business and till 2010 it was doing good but around July 2010 our partnership broke down and there was dramatic shift in my income. When my partnership broke down, the planetary period was changed to "Sun". From July 2010 to Nov 2010 was the planetary range of Sun. Other examples include the planet Sun is debilitated in my chart which means it is a weak planet. One meaning of the planet Sun is authority figures, father etc - so the relationship with my dad is bad and this is confirmed by this weak planet. Btw if other good planets influence, the results might change.

I can provide 4 more date ranges as examples from my astrology report.

The probable favorable periods in your life are between:

December 21, 2007 to December 17, 2008 <--- This was period of mercury which is not related to making money. It was an okay period.
May 2009 to July 15, 2010 <---- This is when venus planet began and I made some money. Venus planet is good in my chart in terms of making money. Whenever it starts I make money through business/partnerships.
November 20, 2010 to June 21, 2011 <----This period belongs to moon and was okay because I made money through income not business. Moon is okay and signifies income and investments in my chart. I had some investment opportunities in this period but didn't invest in them.
June 03, 2019 to December 20, 2021 <---- Future mercury period. It says its good in terms of career and finance. There may be frequent travels during this period.

So it turns out the report says my next favorable period starts from 2019.

Here is a contemporary date range

• From June 21, 2011 to March 03, 2014. <---This as the sub–period Moon's North Node inside main period of Moon's North Node

It says the period is not good for health, domestic life & career. This is also not a good period for the health of elder member of your family.

So far yes its been bad. Ever since the Sun started from July 2010. I learned alot though. The astrologer's report suggested me to not become an atheist when I got his report at the end of 2011. By the way I never knew I would become a non believer in the future. It only started in 2012 when I gave up my religion and became agnostic. So he knew through the position of Moon's north node and Mercury that I would become non believer and tried to suggest me to not become one. The report specifically says this which is true; I don't know about luck though -

This was written under the planet mercury

"Lord of 9th in 12th: luck is spoiled to some extent; no appreciation for religion, but good for moksha" <-- Yes I'm agnostic

Here's 4 more claims which I found to be true

• "Malefic Moon's North Node in 4th house indicates difficulties with mother; difficult life for mother." <--- Yes, My mom has mental illness

• "Malefic Moon's North node creates difficulties in educational life/in obtaining degree/it negates positive trends in this regard." <--- Oh, yes I'm a dropout.

• "Moon's south node Inimical sign as in Cancer makes one vulnerable to deceptive characters/uncontrollable influences". <--- My whole life I've had bad friends with bad characters. I was not able to discern good people from bad because I myself had a bad one and also because of my family culture until I started to learn about critical thinking. Still working on it.

• Sun's debilitated dignity which makes bad relationship with dad <--- true, but it is the other way around. My dad actually has some personality problems.

How can you possibly both be a skeptic and think this works? Please explain what possible methodology there could be that would allow predictions about what happens in your life to be made based on what day and time you were born. Just think, as a skeptic, about the huge range of events that happen in the world that affect your ability to make money in any given time period, or get a job, or whatever. How could your birth however many years ago have anything to do with that? Skeptically speaking, it just doesn't make any sense at all. Please try...

Yes, I know. Science makes assumption that there are laws in the physical world which can be figured out by empirical observation,experimentation and peer review. Maybe Scientists are making some assumptions and there are other ways to formulate these hidden laws. Yes, there are huge range of events and variables and chaos theory is the cause for those events and not the planets ? Chaos theory commonly called the butterfly effect i.e. a butterfly flapping its wings in South America can affect the weather in Central Park. Is Planets causing chaos theory to happen or is it just a scientific theory with no outside effect.

I'm skeptic in the sense I don't follow all the things astrologers suggest to me or I read in astrology. Indian astrologers also tell you to repeat a mantra 108 times which will fix weak planets as a remedy, I don't do that. They also tell you to wear certain rings to give strength to planets such as pearl for the planet moon, blue sapphire for planet Saturn, Emerald for Mercury etc, I don't wear any rings. Plus they also suggest to pay a priest to do some religious ritual as an offering to various deities to fix a planet or overall horoscope of a person, I don't even do that. Carl sagan said let's be open minded but not so much that our brains fall out. I don't believe the stuff you read on newspapers about astrology. But I think there is certain stuff which might be true - like the house system in the birth charts, planet dignities, strength of planets and other variables which effects the efficacy of the statements.

For example, to test whether the dates you've been given really are accurate or whether your perception that they are accurate is just due to confirmation bias and the Forer Effect, you could do the following blind test:

1. Get an astrologer to produce, say, 5 different charts for yourself and 4 other people. Give them to an impartial third party to hold.

2. You and the other 4 people keep a record of significant events for the period covered by the charts.

3. The third party gives copies of all 5 charts to all 5 of you, identified only by a number i.e. none of you know which of the 5 charts is yours.

4. Each of you picks out the chart that seems to match your record of events most closely.

5. The third party then compares the one each of you picked with the one that's really yours and sees if you've correctly identified your charts.

By chance you would expect 1 in 5 to pick the chart that is actually theirs; if significantly more do so that is evidence that the charts really are accurate.

Any astrologer who could consistently produce charts that could be correctly identified in such a test more often than would be expected by chance would have shown astrology really does work. They could also win the JREF $1 million dollar challenge, and several other smaller prizes. No astrologer has ever passed such a test.

Product 5 different charts ? The chart is always stays the same no matter which astrologer you consult, given you provide correct time of birth and place of birth. If the position of planets change then the it is some different astrology system.There are different method to product a chart, some astrologers follow different ones. American astrology system might produce different chart, Indian system might produce different.

I think if you keep reading your date ranges everyday, it can lead you to make bad decisions. E.g. You read some date ranges and you see the range is bad for operating a business and then you see about 1 year from now, a good date range is coming. So you stop all the work and wait for the good range and only then you start your business and succeed in it. Too bad - astrologers should see these date ranges and give scientific suggestions for your problems rather than suggesting to do a prayer to a deity to fix your problems.

Let's forget about planets and see why these date ranges are correct in predictions.
 
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For example this is the range he gave me



It can be in approximation and a little difference does not matter. This is the range which is in the report plus I have a software which makes my birth chart and tells me the same range. So I know the range will be the same no matter which astrologer you consult. I had a small business and till 2010 it was doing good but around July 2010 our partnership broke down and there was dramatic shift in my income. When my partnership broke down, the planetary period was changed to "Sun". From July 2010 to Nov 2010 was the planetary range of Sun. Other examples include the planet Sun is debilitated in my chart which means it is a weak planet. One meaning of the planet Sun is authority figures, father etc - so the relationship with my dad is bad and this is confirmed by this weak planet. Btw if other good planets influence, the results might change.

I can provide 4 more date ranges as examples from my astrology report.

The probable favorable periods in your life are between:

December 21, 2007 to December 17, 2008 <--- This was period of mercury which is not related to making money. It was an okay period.
May 2009 to July 15, 2010 <---- This is when venus planet began and I made some money. Venus planet is good in my chart in terms of making money. Whenever it starts I make money through business/partnerships.
November 20, 2010 to June 21, 2011 <----This period belongs to moon and was okay because I made money through income not business. Moon is okay and signifies income and investments in my chart. I had some investment opportunities in this period but didn't invest in them.
June 03, 2019 to December 20, 2021 <---- Future mercury period. It says its good in terms of career and finance. There may be frequent travels during this period.

So it turns out the report says my next favorable period starts from 2019.

Here is a contemporary date range

• From June 21, 2011 to March 03, 2014. <---This as the sub–period Moon's North Node–Moon's North Node

It says the period is not good for health, domestic life & career. This is also not a good period for the health of elder member of your family.

So far yes its been bad. Ever since the Sun started from July 2010. I learned alot though. The astrologer's report suggested me to not become an atheist when I got his report at the end of 2011. By the way I never knew I would become a non believer in the future. It only started in 2012 when I gave up my religion and became agnostic. So he knew through the position of Moon's north node and Mercury that I would become non believer and tried to suggest me to not become one. The report specifically says this which is true; I don't know about luck though -

This was written under the planet mercury

"Lord of 9th in 12th: luck is spoiled to some extent; no appreciation for religion, but good for moksha" <-- Yes I'm agnostic

Here's 4 more claims which I found to be true

• "Malefic Moon's North Node in 4th house indicates difficulties with mother; difficult life for mother." <--- Yes, My mom has mental illness

• "Malefic Moon's North node creates difficulties in educational life/in obtaining degree/it negates positive trends in this regard." <--- Oh, yes I'm a dropout.

• "Moon's south node Inimical sign as in Cancer makes one vulnerable to deceptive characters/uncontrollable influences". <--- Yes, my whole family don't has any critical thinking skills. My whole life I've had bad friends with bad characters. I was not able to discern good people from bad because I myself had a bad one and also because of my family culture until I started to learn about critical thinking. Still working on it.

• Sun's debilitated dignity which makes bad relationship with dad <--- true, but it is the other way around. My dad actually has some personality problems.



Yes, I know. Science makes assumption that there are laws in the physical world which can be figured out by empirical observation,experimentation and peer review. Maybe Scientists are making some assumptions and there are other ways to formulate these hidden laws. Yes, there are huge range of events and variables and chaos theory is the cause for those events and not the planets ? Chaos theory commonly called the butterfly effect i.e. a butterfly flapping its wings in South America can affect the weather in Central Park. Is Planets causing chaos theory to happen or is it just a scientific theory with no outside effect.

I'm skeptic in the sense I don't follow all the things astrologers suggest to me or I read in astrology. Indian astrologers also tell you to repeat a mantra 108 times which will fix weak planets as a remedy, I don't do that. They also tell you to wear certain rings to give strength to planets such as pearl for the planet moon, blue sapphire for planet Saturn, Emerald for Mercury etc, I don't wear any rings. Plus they also suggest to pay a priest to do some religious ritual as an offering to various deities to fix a planet or overall horoscope of a person, I don't even do that. Carl sagan said let's be open minded but not so much that our brains fall out. I don't believe the stuff you read on newspapers about astrology. But I think there is certain stuff which might be true - like the house system in the birth charts, planet dignities, strength of planets and other variables which effects the efficacy of the statements.



Product 5 different charts ? The chart is always stays the same no matter which astrologer you consult, given you provide correct time of birth and place of birth. If the position of planets change then the it is some different astrology system.There are different method to product a chart, some astrologers follow different ones. American astrology system might produce different chart, Indian system might produce different.

I think if you keep reading your date ranges everyday, it can lead you to make bad decisions. E.g. You read some date ranges and you see the range is bad for operating a business and then you see about 1 year from now, a good date range is coming. So you stop all the work and wait for the good range and only then you start your business and succeed in it. Too bad - astrologers should see these date ranges and give scientific suggestions for your problems rather than suggesting to do a prayer to a deity to fix your problems.

Let's forget about planets and see why these date ranges are correct

That is one hefty dose of confirmation bias and you are not skeptic.
 
Not five different charts for each person, five charts for five people, one each.
 

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