Indian astrology Birth Chart system ?

[dafydd]

Skepticism is not a game that one wins or loses by debating con artists. It is a critical thinking process that, among other things, saves one money that might otherwise be handed over to charlatans.[

Take heed, hopkinsworld.

 

[dafydd]

.....

Em.... ever heard of books? Research? Experience? When I was younger I was more naive than I am now and became convinced that I could dowse with a pendulum, until I starting keeping a record of every dowsing attempt. There hits were no more as predicted by chance, and that is how I discovered that dowsing is bunk. For the puzzled, hopkinsworld asked me how I developed my critical thinking, before he replaced the question with dots.

 

[dafydd]

Off topic - Taking that it takes 10,000 hour to become an expert. How many hours people put on improving their critical thinking and argumentation skills ? How do they measure their progress ?

Jeez, you are editing your posts at a mile a minute! What's going on?

 

[hopkinsworld]

Thanks for your time.

Mods can Lock this thread if they want.

 

[dafydd]

Thanks for your time.

Lock this thread.

That is not up to you. Why? Have we put the E in the JREF?

 

[Pixel42]

Product 5 different charts ? The chart is always stays the same no matter which astrologer you consult, given you provide correct time of birth and place of birth.

Five different charts for five different people.

Let's forget about planets and see why these date ranges are correct in predictions.

Let's first find out if these date ranges are correct in predictions. To do that you need to eliminate confirmation bias and the Forer effect, which means you need to do a blind test of the kind I described.

 

[Hokulele]

" In Indian astrology, the Sun is called Surya and represents the soul, ego, vitality kingship, highly placed persons, government and father."

Good grief, with the time ranges including more than a year, and the representations covering everything from health to government, how on earth could there ever be any misses? This whole system is set up to be so inclusive, it is pretty much useless for predictions.

One of your predictions demonstrates this perfectly, in that you were basically told that there will be "difficulties with mother". No kidding. This is so broad it could mean anything from not being close to your mother, to health issues, to not having a mother at all. Who on earth hasn't had a mother who had "difficulties" at some point in their lives?

And as Pixel42 noted, this is something pretty easy to test while eliminating all of the confounding issues. And when astrology is tested properly, it fails. There have been at least 1 or 2 astrologers who have agreed to be informally tested on this very forum...

...and most of us still aren't impressed. That should tell you something.

 

[Blue Mountain]

For example this is the range he gave me
<snip>
December 21, 2007 to December 17, 2008 <--- This was period of mercury which is not related to making money. It was an okay period.

It was okay for me, too!

May 2009 to July 15, 2010 <---- This is when venus planet began and I made some money. Venus planet is good in my chart in terms of making money. Whenever it starts I make money through business/partnerships.

I was making money between May 2009 to July 15, 2010 as well!

November 20, 2010 to June 21, 2011 <----This period belongs to moon and was okay because I made money through income not business. Moon is okay and signifies income and investments in my chart. I had some investment opportunities in this period but didn't invest in them.

Wow, I too made money thorough income between November 2010 and June 2011!

June 03, 2019 to December 20, 2021 <---- Future mercury period. It says its good in terms of career and finance. There may be frequent travels during this period.

That's seven years from now! What are the chances you'll even remember this in seven years? Or, just as likely, you'll plan to some travelling in the 2019-2021 time frame because of these words.

As for me, I've travelled (by jet) twice in the last eighteen months, which is a lot more than I did in the previous decade. But I didn't need an astrologer to tell me I should do it.

So it turns out the report says my next favorable period starts from 2019.

Here is a contemporary date range

From June 21, 2011 to March 03, 2014. <---This as the sub–period Moon's North Node inside main period of Moon's North Node

It says the period is not good for health, domestic life & career. This is also not a good period for the health of elder member of your family.

Sadly, I suspect my mother will die some time before December 31, 2014; she's in poor health now.

Lord of 9th in 12th: luck is spoiled to some extent; no appreciation for religion, but good for moksha"

I, too, have little appreciation for religion.

Here's 4 more claims which I found to be true

"Malefic Moon's North Node in 4th house indicates difficulties with mother; difficult life for mother."

As I mentioned above, my mother is in poor health and I would not be surprised to see her pass away before the end of 2014.

"Malefic Moon's North node creates difficulties in educational life/in obtaining degree/it negates positive trends in this regard."

At my age, I find it difficult to learn anything new ...

"Moon's south node Inimical sign as in Cancer makes one vulnerable to deceptive characters/uncontrollable influences".

As to the "uncontrollable influences" part, since I can't control the health of my parents, I'm vulnerable to experiencing their passing in a few years.

Sun's debilitated dignity which makes bad relationship with dad

Why, just the other day I was on the phone with my Dad and he got upset with me because of something I was talking about, which has almost never happened in the past.

Basically, this guy is just freaking awesome! He got my personal horoscope completly 100% correct!

Oh, wait, that was your horoscope.

Do you see what I've done here? I've just shown that what is supposedly "your" horoscope is so generic it applied almost perfectly to me as well. And that's what astrology is: generic mumbo-jumbo that can be read by practically anyone to fit their own life. And that's why it seems to work so well.

 

[dafydd]

It was okay for me, too!


I was making money between May 2009 to July 15, 2010 as well!


Wow, I too made money thorough income between November 2010 and June 2011!


That's seven years from now! What are the chances you'll even remember this in seven years? Or, just as likely, you'll plan to some travelling in the 2019-2021 time frame because of these words.

As for me, I've travelled (by jet) twice in the last eighteen months, which is a lot more than I did in the previous decade. But I didn't need an astrologer to tell me I should do it.


Sadly, I suspect my mother will die some time before December 31, 2014; she's in poor health now.


I, too, have little appreciation for religion.


As I mentioned above, my mother is in poor health and I would not be surprised to see her pass away before the end of 2014.


At my age, I find it difficult to learn anything new ...


As to the "uncontrollable influences" part, since I can't control the health of my parents, I'm vulnerable to experiencing their passing in a few years.


Why, just the other day I was on the phone with my Dad and he got upset with me because of something I was talking about, which has almost never happened in the past.

Basically, this guy is just freaking awesome! He got my personal horoscope completly 100% correct!

Oh, wait, that was your horoscope.

Do you see what I've done here? I've just shown that what is supposedly "your" horoscope is so generic it applied almost perfectly to me as well. And that's what astrology is: generic mumbo-jumbo that can be read by practically anyone to fit their own life. And that's why it seems to work so well.

Ditto, except that my mother is dead. This amazing reading is the usual astrological waffle.

 

[sophia8]

Yes I've the record and No, I approached the astrologer after I've had made the money and when that period was over. I didn't even knew the dates btw. When he sent me the report the dates listed there were the exact time I made the money and after that time I didn't made anything. So the record already had the dates listed when I was successful.

That's a parlour trick that many Indian astrologers use, though the more traditional prefer the old way of doing it. They meet the client face to face, get their details, duck into another room and rummage noisily around for a while. They then emerge with a flourish bearing a palm leaf, upon which their incredibly accurate predictions are written. The client is then shown the room, which contains a large collection of such leaves, and is told that his very own personal leaf was amongst them before he even arrived! Amazing!
If your astrologer didn't do that - you wuz robbed.

 

[hopkinsworld]

As I mentioned above, my mother is in poor health and I would not be surprised to see her pass away before the end of 2014.

As to the "uncontrollable influences" part, since I can't control the health of my parents, I'm vulnerable to experiencing their passing in a few years.

Why, just the other day I was on the phone with my Dad and he got upset with me because of something I was talking about, which has almost never happened in the past.

I did not copy-paste the predictions from my report. I wrote that in my own words while posting in this forum and I did not provide all the details obviously. Let's get specific about the chart -

Did you had bad relationship with your dad in terms of all your life ? That's what it is in my chart. You see when I say bad relationship, here's what happens - You both did not had common ground ever since you were born, your dad either had skewed personality/worldview all your life and you did not had shared worldview which caused trouble in your relationship. No shared interests. Did you had that all through your life ? And you never were friends with your dad all through your life. Is it like that in your life ? He was either emotionally distant/angry or something all through life. You two were just never connected all through your life.

Here's another one when Moon's North node is in 4th house - domestic happiness is impaired all throughout life unless some better planet is in your chart which might change the result whenever that planet starts its period in your chart. So I'm 22 right now and I live with my parents. All my life(up till age 22) I had to face domestic violence and abuse - did you also had domestic violence and abuse all your life ? Were you helpless in terms of trying to fix the abuse in your house ? How specific more do you want to be ? Oh yes, some weeks might be peaceful and some weeks might be more intense. But when you look back at your life, you basically had to face abuse all your life and home life was intense. Is this true for you ? Now that changes when beneficial planet like Venus starts and the effects of abuse gets reduced for you and specifically for the period.

And I did not try to give meaning to the report. It's like the way it is.

 

[hopkinsworld]

That's a parlour trick that many Indian astrologers use, though the more traditional prefer the old way of doing it. They meet the client face to face, get their details, duck into another room and rummage noisily around for a while. They then emerge with a flourish bearing a palm leaf, upon which their incredibly accurate predictions are written. The client is then shown the room, which contains a large collection of such leaves, and is told that his very own personal leaf was amongst them before he even arrived! Amazing!
If your astrologer didn't do that - you wuz robbed.

Who said about palm leaf and going to meet him face to face. I contacted him over the internet and gave him the details. And btw the planets dates remain the same no matter which astrologer you contact and the periods have been consistent with every astrologer who uses birth chart system using the software system they use. So put the details in the software and it makes your chart. Have you talked to astrologers who use software based method to calculate your chart. They input your details in a software and then interpret the results for you.

 

[dafydd]

I did not copy-paste the predictions from my report. I wrote that in my own words while posting in this forum and I did not provide all the details obviously. Let's get specific about the chart -

Did you had bad relationship with your dad in terms of all your life ? That's what it is in my chart. You see when I say bad relationship, here's what happens - You both did not had common ground ever since you were born, your dad either had skewed personality/worldview all your life and you did not had shared worldview which caused trouble in your relationship. No shared interests. Did you had that all through your life ? And you never were friends with your dad all through your life. Is it like that in your life ? He was either emotionally distant/angry or something all through life. You two were just never connected all through your life.

Here's another one when Moon's North node is in 4th house - domestic happiness is impaired all throughout life unless some better planet is in your chart which might change the result whenever that planet starts its period in your chart. So I'm 22 right now and I live with my parents. All my life(up till age 22) I had to face domestic violence and abuse - did you also had domestic violence and abuse all your life ? Where you helpless in terms of trying to fix the abuse in your house ? How specific more do you want to be ? Oh yes, some weeks might be peaceful and some weeks might be more intense. But when you look back at your life, you basically had to face abuse all your life and home life was intense. Now that changes when beneficial planet like Venus starts and the effects of abuse gets reduced for you and specifically for the period.

And I did not try to give meaning to the report. It's like the way it is.

The planet Venus would not be very beneficial to humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

How does this lump of rock have a beneficial effect on you? What is the mechanism? What is the nature of this mysterious influence? Why can this influence cross millions of kilometers, get through the magnetic field and the atmosphere but it can't penetrate the womb? If my child was going to be born under a sign that I didn't like, could I keep him or her in a room made of meat until the appropriate juncture?

 

[hopkinsworld]

The planet Venus would not be very beneficial to humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

How does this lump of rock have a beneficial effect on you? What is the mechanism? What is the nature of this mysterious influence? Why can this influence cross millions of kilometers. get through the magnetic field and the atmosphere but it can't penetrate the womb? If my child was going to be born under a sign that I didn't like, could I keep him or her in a room made of meat until the appropriate juncture?

Some people have bad venus dignity in their chart and some people have good. So mine happens to be in a very good position in my chart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essent...of_the_traditional_essential_dignities.5B2.5D

Update:

See that box in wiki. When venus is in virgo in your birth chart, so venus is bad for you all through your life. Worse position for Venus.

When Venus is in Pisces in your chart(its awesome for you, all through your life), so venus is best for you.

When venus is in Scorpio, Aries its harmful for you.

Venus in libra and taurus is best again.

There are also degrees of planets in which they fall. Venus in libra at 15 degree have different meaning and venus in libra at 29 degree has different meaning for you. I don't want to get into advanced life astrology. They all different meaning in terms of your overall chart.

 

[dafydd]

Some people have bad venus dignity in their chart and some people have good. So mine happens to be in a very good position in my chart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essent...of_the_traditional_essential_dignities.5B2.5D

No. I asked you what the mechanism and nature is of this spooky force from the planets. You claimed to be a skeptic at the start of this thread. The mask is off. You are an astrology woo. The page you linked to was very funny.

''Modern dignity

Many modern astrologers, eschewing the use of the other essential dignities, use the three outer planets, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto as the modern rulers of Aquarius, Pisces and Scorpio, respectively. The practice derives from the similarity between the nature of the planets with the nature of these signs.''

Pluto is not a planet. There are many bodies at the edge of the Solar System which are as big as Pluto. What essential dignities do they control? The nature of Pluto is the same as the nature of Scorpio? Pluto is a small, cold lump of rock.

 

[dafydd]

Some people have bad venus dignity in their chart and some people have good. So mine happens to be in a very good position in my chart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essent...of_the_traditional_essential_dignities.5B2.5D

Update:

See that box in wiki. When venus is in virgo in your birth chart(all your life), so venus is bad for you all through your life. Worse position for Venus.

When Venus is in Pisces in your chart(its awesome for you, all through your life), so venus is best for you.

When venus is in Scorpio, Aries its harmful for you.

Venus in libra and taurus is best again.

I don't want to get into advanced life astrology. They have all different meaning in terms of your chart.

Total bollocks. Taurus is just a random arrangement of stars which have nothing to do with each other. From the other side of the Galaxy it would appear to have a different shape. An intelligent race on a planet on the other side of the Galaxy probably wouldn't even think of connect those stars in a silly ''sign''.

 

[hopkinsworld]

No. I asked you what the mechanism and nature is of this spooky force from the planets. You claimed to be a skeptic at the start of this thread. The mask is off. You are an astrology woo. The page you linked to was very funny.

I don't know. Ask those professional astrologers who use this system - specifically those who make your birth chart from their software.

 

[dafydd]

The stars in Taurus are Aldebaran, Pleiades, Beta Tauri, Electra, Zeta Tauri. They are all at vast distances from each other and the Earth. How do these stars force Venus to have an influence on you?

 

[dafydd]

I don't know. Ask those professional astrologers who use this system - specifically those who make your birth chart from their software.

Professional charlatans. They don't know either. If they did then one of them would have received a Nobel prize for discovering a new force of nature. You don't know but still you believe. That makes sense. All astrologers should be made to take a test in which they predict the future accurately in order to be licensed. They would all fail the exam, every time that astrology has been subjected to a real test it has been shown to be bunk. If you want to waste your money on it, fair enough, but realize that you are being conned.

 

[hopkinsworld]

The stars in Taurus are Aldebaran, Pleiades, Beta Tauri, Electra, Zeta Tauri. They are all at vast distances from each other and the Earth. How do these stars force Venus to have an influence on you?

Try this guy

http://www.brentbecvar.com/
http://www.chopra.com/jyotish

Update: He uses the same system. I got it made for cheap in India. I don't know his quality of chart interpretation but if he has expertise then it might be worth it.

I got it from here as a pdf:
http://www.cyberastro.com/astrology/life_prediction.asp

Plus I too have a software at home pc, so I can make my chart too. I don't know any astrology. But the obvious stuff which the software generates, any layman can understand that