I Am Soul

[Paulhoff]

Nope.


The apple is read because there is a need for the apple to be read.

Hahahahahahaha

Paul



Out of the mouth of babes...............

 

[dglas]

I'm still waiting to find out my male counterpart per maatorc...

maybe it's you.

But it was you who told us who your male counterpart was....


Someone, somewhere just got to...
Win Powerball!!!


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3491342&postcount=216

 

[Navigator]

I think what Paulhoff is trying to say is that simply saying that "it's red" is not enough. We have to define what red means, if we all see red in the same way, and questions of that nature.

In the same way that I asked what you meant by soul and other terms you used. We can't just use words and assume everyone understands what we mean, sometimes we have to go deeper and gain a mutual understanding before we can truly communicate.

That's good - I like that. It has depth and honesty.

I am not so sure a mutual understanding is possible, and that halps me to understand the world a lot better and see thing in a less judgemental manner.

Not is we are all just brains.

Brains are just too different.

Also, sometime it might be that the tangents we go off on are well....spiliting atoms.

Maybe the key is to say The apple" and leave it at that.

Buit then, maybe the question will arise...yes but WHY the apple?

Do you glimpse what I am trying to convey?

Maybe a true skeptic needs to forgo abstracts at all? I don't know.

 

[Wings]

Buit then, maybe the question will arise...yes but WHY the apple?

Do you glimpse what I am trying to convey?

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's incomplete - as far as I see.

Why the apple is incomplete, we need something else. Why the apple (what)?

Why is the apple red?
Why is the apple round?

Get what I mean?

 

[dglas]

Well, Navigator. Last I heard here, you were in the process of reading my rather lengthy post. I actually went back and read all this thread before composing it out of courtesy, assuming you warranted some consideration. That was my pop-fizz. Are you prepared to offer me the same courtesy? I don't recall seeing a response yet. Any further thoughts on that?

Or is it just hearty belly-laugh time?

Tell me I've...
Won Powerball!!

ETA: Ruh-roh! Did you just use the term "True Skeptic?" Please tell me you didn't just do that...

 

[Kopji]

I am comfortable with 'soul' as an aesthetic idea. To my view, 'Soul' contains an idea that Picasso meant when he said that a painting was a 'lie that told the truth'. We can appreciate the beauty or myth within the idea of soul, but it betrays us when we attempt to use it as an anchor of Truth.

How true is a painting?
How true is this idea of a soul?
Meaningless questions.
Where should our ideas about soul lead us?
Might have more meaning, but also need more caution.

Not to preach, but 'soul' is an idea that we can find beauty within if we look at it certain ways. The caution would be to try and promote a 'true' version. This would be like striving for a standard form of artistic expression that we should all follow in order to 'make progress' or 'communicate better' or 'be more unified'. We would hopefully resist such a tyranny of thought, just as we should resist being told what kind of music to like.

 

[Kopji]

We have Powerball here, it is almost the only reason I enter a Circle K market.

 

[Wings]

I'm curious, what do you mean by "artistic expression"?

 

[Navigator]

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's incomplete - as far as I see.

Why the apple is incomplete, we need something else. Why the apple (what)?

Why is the apple red?
Why is the apple round?

Get what I mean?

Yes.

The Apple. No need for why.

 

[Wings]

I suppose we've reached a crossroad in terms of our opinions. If I am getting you correctly.

You feel there is no need to ask questions.
I feel questions are vitally important and necessary.

 

[Navigator]

Well, Navigator. Last I heard here, you were in the process of reading my rather lengthy post. I actually went back and read all this thread before composing it out of courtesy, assuming you warranted some consideration. That was my pop-fizz. Are you prepared to offer me the same courtesy? I don't recall seeing a response yet. Any further thoughts on that?


ETA: Ruh-roh! Did you just use the term "True Skeptic?" Please tell me you didn't just do that...

Hey there

nope I didn't forget ya! I have been working...is patience and abstract?
It is possible I will address your questions abstractly so look out for that.

Thanks for the time and effort you put into your post too.

Oh yes - I did use that expression and it relates to the "are we dishonest" question...

Is true and abstract?

 

[Navigator]

You feel there is no need to ask questions.
I feel questions are vitally important and necessary.

Why?


Vital for what? Important for why?
Necessary to who?
You?
You are the brain who created you?
Why did brain create you?

Is brain truthful?

Is it vitally important and necessary for you to know how magicians do their magic?

 

[Paulhoff]

Why?


Vital for what? Important for why?
Necessary to who?
You?
You are the brain who created you?
Why did brain create you?

Is brain truthful?

Is it vitally important and necessary for you to know how magicians do their magic?

I can come up with many reasons why for the apple is red, and you haven't a clue for one.

Paul

 

[Wings]

Why?

Because I want to grow.

Vital for what? Important for why?

Vital for my growth and improvement in understanding and knowledge towards the world. Important to my growth as a human being.

Necessary to who?

Necessary to me if I want to continue to grow as a human being.

You?

Yes.

You are the brain who created you?

I don't recall my brain creating me. I am my brain and my body, and I was born from my mother and father.

Why did brain create you?

It didn't. My mother and father created me.

Is brain truthful?

Define "truth".

Is it vitally important and necessary for you to know how magicians do their magic?

Depends on the context. If I wish to learn how to be a magician, it is important. Is it necesarry for my survival? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that asking questions is not vital.

 

[Paulhoff]

And the religious love to say we are closed minded.

Paul



So magic is their answer for everything...........

 

[Navigator]

Why do you want to grow?
Why do you want to be important as a human being?
Did your brain have no part to play in creating you as you think of yourself?
Define truth?
Umm...example of:
Your Mother and father created you.
You want to grow as a human being.
You don't need to know the secrets of magical tricks because you don't want to be a magician.

Asking certain questions then, is what you mean by vital, in the context of your growth, asking the question you think are important and necessary to the way/direction you wish to grow as a human being.

Human beings are wonderful for their diversity.

 

[Kopji]

I'm curious, what do you mean by "artistic expression"?

It might help to understand that I see what we call 'religion' as an art form, a creative expression. It has a uniquely poor habit of trying to suppress other creative outlets in favor of itself. Religion is 'pretty', or 'ugly' in a similar way that music is. There is a large component of personal taste and feeling, but also calculation and reason. There is also an aspect of 'as within, so without' that is harder to pin down.

Does the environment we surround ourselves with work its way in? Or does some inner process start working its way out around us? Is who we become somehow 'caught' ? Can't say that I know.

I'm also comfortable with using the word 'spirituality' to simply describe a naturally evolved impulse to be creative and seek beauty. There are other things more worth discussing.

If we took a large group of people that used to be religious but now are not, I would predict that they would become more widely artistic or creative than they were before, since 'religion' was no longer the sole 'approved' artistic channel. This is actually an idea that might be falsified. All you religious folks out there just stop believing and let's test this.

So to use the word 'soul' to describe aspects of ourselves we tend to think about in rather fuzzy ways does not bother me. There is plenty written on how myth and culture work as a social evolution. Thinking abstractly is good and helps us survive.

What would bother me is saying that there was a specific 'right' way.

 

[Navigator]

Navigator agrees with kopji

 

[Wings]

Why do you want to grow?

Because I recognize that I can grow and improve.

Why do you want to be important as a human being?

I don't recall saying I wanted to be important. I did say that asking questions is important.

Did your brain have no part to play in creating you as you think of yourself?

You're separating my brain from who I am, but they are one and the same. My brain is me just as much as my body is me.

Define truth?
Umm...example of:
Your Mother and father created you.
You want to grow as a human being.

I see, so you define truth as facts?

You don't need to know the secrets of magical tricks because you don't want to be a magician.

Need? No. But the possibility is there if I want to ever learn.

Asking certain questions then, is what you mean by vital, in the context of your growth, asking the question you think are important and necessary to the way/direction you wish to grow as a human being.

You are correct.

 

[articulett]

navigator sounds like a chatbot...