I Am Soul

[edge]

That’s the space ship from flight of the navigator, Compliance!

 

[Wings]

That’s the space ship from flight of the navigator, Compliance!

Going off-topic: I loved that movie so much as a kid. Scuz-bucket! Ha-ha.

On-topic: Navigator, I need the "superior" information in your head to complete my mission!

 

[Navigator]

I think maybe my point was missed?

Or:

I am understanding how a group representative of skeptics think.

Tricky, it does not matter what the judge or the jury believes. If the prisoner knows he is innocent, then that is that.

Sure, there will be cases of the other types, but this does not signify that all -prisoners claiming innocence are all the same types.

Ie: Deluded.

So my point was that subjectively the accused KNOWS it didn't do the crime.
Unless you are suggesting that all prisoners found guilty ARE guilty?

Sometimes I do get the impression from some of you that you want me to eat the oinion and believe it is an apple.

'you are getting sleeeepy......your reality is not real.......'

 

[Wings]

Okay Navigator, I'm getting a bit confused on your positions.

Are you claiming that what a person believes is true just as much true as something that is factual?

 

[Navigator]

Wings

Are we back to word wrangles already!

 

[Wings]

No, I'm asking you if what someone believes is just as much true as verified scientific facts.

For example. You bought a coat. You observe it to be red. I observe it to be yellow since I always felt that the color red seemed to fit better with the word "yellow". Everyone else we ask says that it is red. Are all equal in fact? Is my yellow as much factual as everyone else's red?

 

[Navigator]

No, I'm asking you if what someone believes is just as much true as verified scientific facts.

For example. You bought a coat. You observe it to be red. I observe it to be yellow since I always felt that the color red seemed to fit better with the word "yellow". Everyone else we ask says that it is red. Are all equal in fact? Is my yellow as much factual as everyone else's red?



Nope.

It is in fact a Jacket

 

[Wings]

Okay, it's a jacket. So what about the interpretation of the colors?

 

[Navigator]

Your Hair



Wat carlaw iz ur face?



Wat iz the taste of 3dumb?

 

[Wings]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/customavatars/avatar16085_6.gif[/qimg]

Your Hair



Wat carlaw iz ur face?



Wat iz the taste of 3dumb?

If you wanna learn how to swim, you have to jump in the water. Don't forget to feed Bruiser. Two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun... Whoa! I think I got some stuff out of your head that has nothing to do with answering this question!

 

[Navigator]

Holed the onions I will hav apples!

U cannot c z anzers?

wat do dat matta?

your face is red

Yes

Why b yor face s red?

 

[Wings]

Woah. He's lost it.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I think maybe my point was missed?

The question is, who missed it? You know, it might be you.

I am understanding how a group representative of skeptics think.

Do enlighten us. I didn't even know such a creature existed.

Tricky, it does not matter what the judge or the jury believes. If the prisoner knows he is innocent, then that is that.

"Knows". What does that mean? 1) He is innocent (since this is a scenario we can assume facts) and he is aware of it? OK, then he is factually innocent.

Or does it 2) mean that he perceives himself as innocent? Then it matters what others perceive.

So my point was that subjectively the accused KNOWS it didn't do the crime.

Subjectively? That is #2, above. In that case he may be deluded, or his perception of guilt is different from that of others.

Unless you are suggesting that all prisoners found guilty ARE guilty?

I can't imagine anybody would suggest that.

Sometimes I do get the impression from some of you that you want me to eat the oinion and believe it is an apple.

That is the impression I get from you.

Hans

 

[Foster Zygote]

Woah. He's lost it.

I think it may be more like he realizes he's painted himself into a corner and making funny noises might distract others from the fact.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Tricky, it does not matter what the judge or the jury believes. If the prisoner knows he is innocent, then that is that.

No. Even if the convict had come to believe that he had committed the crime, the truth would still be that he had not.

Sure, there will be cases of the other types, but this does not signify that all -prisoners claiming innocence are all the same types.

Ie: Deluded.

Whom has suggested this? What does it have to do with your point?

So my point was that subjectively the accused KNOWS it didn't do the crime.
Unless you are suggesting that all prisoners found guilty ARE guilty?

Yet his innocence does not arise from his subjective experience. It is an objective fact that he did not commit the crime. The truth of this is not dependent on his belief in his innocence.

 

[breathe]

Tricky:

The "accused" are quite often self-deluded and don't really know at all. The opposite of "true" isn't "a lie". The opposite of "true" is "false". Even if you believe, with all your heart, in something that is false, that does not make it true.

I think it is quite extreme to imply that "quite often" any group of people are the same. If you believe this is true and I believe it is false...then who is lying........


Foster Zygote:

No. Even if the convict had come to believe that he had committed the crime, the truth would still be that he had not.

Again, the truth is what is in question...............and these two quotes show how easily misinterpretation occurs when everyone is bring so many assumptions to the table...

everyone has a sense of self and everyone is different, hasn't genetics proven that much?

just imagine life as a yoghurt apple lollie from Istanbul

 

[Foster Zygote]

Tricky:

I think it is quite extreme to imply that "quite often" any group of people are the same.

Define "the same". Is it extreme to imply that quite often Canadians have being Canadian in common? Seriously, please clarify what you are stating.

If you believe this is true and I believe it is false...then who is lying........

Quite often neither. To be a liar one must knowingly state a falsehood. But, as Dawkins has said, just because two people defend opposite conclusions with equal effort it does not necessarily follow that the truth lies halfway between. It is entirely possible for one side of an argument to be simply wrong.

Foster Zygote:


Again, the truth is what is in question...............and these two quotes show how easily misinterpretation occurs when everyone is bring so many assumptions to the table...

Please point out the misinterpretation and the assumption made in my statement.

everyone has a sense of self and everyone is different, hasn't genetics proven that much?

I do not intend to be rude, but I have my doubts about your comprehension of this discussion.

just imagine life as a yoghurt apple lollie from Istanbul

Erm... right.

 

[breathe]

Zygote...

Sweeping generalisations are obviously problematic and in this case we are contesting as Tricky states and you follow the 'deluded' accused. Canadians and prisoners?....apples and oranges...


With respect to sameness, I ask you, what is it that makes convicts the same?

Further, the accused was found guilty and, he believes in his innocence. Yet you are saying, which supports the notion of 'delusion' already suggested in this topic, even if he starts doubting himself , the truth will prevail. When clearly, we already know that it has not based on the assumptions of the group responsible for his sentencing.


yoghurt, apple, lollie..no?

perhaps something else

then let me see..........

 

[Tricky]

Tricky:

I think it is quite extreme to imply that "quite often" any group of people are the same.

The term "quite often" is used purposefully to indicate that it isn't universal and it doesn't even imply a majority. If a product failed 20% of the time, it would be correct to say it failed "quite often". I say "quite often" because I have met a substantial number of believers who have made claims that are obviously pure delusion. There are a number here. We encounter them "quite often". What term would you prefer I use?

If you believe this is true and I believe it is false...then who is lying...

If we both believe in our position, then neither is lying. The definition of a lie is saying something you know is not true. However, it is almost certain that one of us is wrong. How do you determing which one of us is wrong? Evidence. And of course, the person who makes a positive claim (like "there is a god") should be the one to provide evidence for that positive claim.

 

[breathe]

breatheQuote:
everyone has a sense of self and everyone is different, hasn't genetics proven that much?

zygote:

I do not intend to be rude, but I have my doubts about your comprehension of this discussion...

Please explain how this is not a direct insult, to what seems to me, like a valid question?


Or is it that you know all?