But there is no good evidence that consciousness continues after the death of the "human instrument". What other scenarios for which there is no evidence should we prepare for? Should we study Hades in case the Greek scenario of the afterlife is right?
I study myself and my experiences regarding my OBE.
I suspect that the scenarios handed down from the ancients are more products of control than likely hereafter realities.
I do not see from your evidence that any sort of non-corporal experiences exist. All I see is a human who has a very corporal brain that does some odd things sometimes. There is a great deal of evidence for this. There is none for non-corporeal experiences.
While this is true for you, I am not the kind to believe in what you don’t see as being something I should convert to.
Yet you believe that the even more complex creator could exist without itself being created? Careful, Navigator. That argument is one that is is extremely easy to counter. I don't think you want to go there.
It appears that complex consciousness tends to create images in its likeness, and humans will continue to carry on this trait because that seems to be almost an impulsive drive.
The odds for other complex life forms existing are quite good. The odds of encountering them are not nearly as good.
Hard to say. How advanced are we talking?
To you, perhaps, yet you cannot show them to anyone else. Remember, your brain is very good at fooling you. That is why real evidence is objectively observable.
Because real evidence is incapable of fooling the brain?
No, I haven’t heard an explanation as to why the brain needs to fool the consciousness it supposedly created.
I suppose you could say that "anything is possible". But there are so very many "anythings" to choose from. How do you decide which ones are likely? As it turns out, there is a way that has proved to be reliable time and time again. Evidence.
Well, the universe seems to be (there is no word for the sheer size) and there seem to be (there is no number for how many) galaxies, and within each galaxy is the possibility of (there are no words to describe the possibilities) so I guess, even in this physical reality, anything is possible, although it is likely everything possible is complex. So the likelihood of a spaghetti monster is pretty slim, but the likelihood of a monster spaghetti is plausible.
Then why are you preparing for it?
Because it is a possibility. And OBE might be the tool for the job of preparation – speaking as I do, subjectively.
Natural things have evidence. But it is pure hubris to think that the only way complexity could arise is through consciousness. And again remember, turtles all the way down, i.e. what created the consciousness?
Pride? Pure? I don’t understand how you could deduce this from the hypothsis that complexity needs a creative consciousness to bring it into being.
Consciousness created consciousness. Indeed, IF consciousness created this universe, then it would have to be complex (in context this word is inadequate) itself – Furthermore, IF a complex consciousness created this universe, then there is no way it could dwell with human form unless it was considerably toned down – Therefore IF consciousness created this universe, then it would have to create a series of ‘instruments’ in order to ‘devolve’ enough to inhabit physical form.
The universe could well be the brain of this creative consciousness.
I am sure you are not physically injured. I suspect that you believe that your arguments have not been countered by better arguments. Such is the nature of forums. But I find it highly unlikely that your arguments have convinced anyone here.
It is not my intention to convince anyone here.
All that I ask is that you stick to the same definition within the scope of a thread. What we call consciousness in humans is nothing like the description of consciousness in some proposed creator.
No – it is something like it. A part of it – a fragmented part of it. A teeny tiny bit of a part of it.
Every played hide and seek?
Actually, the scientific method is quite good at this sort of thing. In fact, it helps people prevent themselves from being misled by their brains. If the evidence doesn't fit what your brain wants to believe, then you must accept the likelihood that your brain was wrong.
Naughty brain bad brain tricky brain false brain lying brain.
My brain and your brain may well be wrong.
My brain enjoys the company of consciousness.
Each person who is not you is an "outside intelligence". They don't have to be god-like beings. If something is observable by you, but not by the outside intelligences of other people, then the strongest possibility is that it is purely internal to you.
Oh – what’s a ‘god like’ being then?
Every outside intelligence might be a god like being.
From what I have read about god around here, things seem to grind on about the god of the bible and him being a he and all.
That is kinda small, as far as I can ascertain. Kinda distracting.
More likely that particualr god is one of those devolved consciousness I mentioned earlier in this post – and I think that god is very misrepresented (in the bible) at that.
Why do brains think? It is just what they do. In the light of natural selection, I suspect it has survival value. We are a problem-solving animal. It has worked well for us.
Yes.
Yes, it can be defined, but have you actually conceived of nothingness? What is is like? And how big is infinity?
The thing about nothingness is that consciousness can’t actually go there.
Unless you can demonstrate that an actual journey to another realm/plane/existence occurred, then no, I have no reason to believe it happened anywhere other than in your mind. Your incredibly complex, incredibly inventive, incredibly tricky mind. I am open to further evidence.
I don’t think you are open to any evidence. I think you are content knowing that your brain tricks you (and therefore everyone’s brain tricks everyone) and because any OBE you might be able to accomplish, and any exploration you might be able to do OOB would only be figured in as evidence to you that your brain is tricking you.
But gosh, if it can be measured by scientific instruments on this side, then how can it really be the other side? Do you see the paradox of trying to defend the supernatural?
uh uh – now you’re being tricky Tricky. In context I have already said that ‘paranormal’ etc…is not something I believe exists.
Everything that exists, seen or unseen – even IF that ‘other side’ proves to exist (and instruments are eventually created able to ‘take a picture’ for you to see as evidence) then it is as natural as everything else that exists.
This is what is know to students of logic as a "false dichotomy". It is not a case of "If not #1 then it must be #2. Honestly, I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make.
Yeah I just threw that in for the heck of it really – I think I was interested in whether you were able to think things are possible without any evidence, if it could be restricted to the physical world…
But yes, there are many privately-funded groups which try to bend science to their particular brand of mythology.
Not exactly what I asked, but it shows me at least that you categorically believe there is NO such thing as consciousness being able to exist outside of a human instrument of its own accord, independent of a body.
Therefore it can never be provably shown to be factual certainty ever, not one day not ever.
Or am I reading you incorrectly?
And there's nothing to be ashamed about for being afraid of death. Death is damn scary. What is (I think) a shame is to escape into fantasy to avoid being scared by death. Bravery is not being unafraid. Bravery is facing reality in spite of your fear.
That is hard. What is it to you or your opinion of anyone, that they might not be brave, that you would see them as shameful?
What you are seeing here on these forums is but a tiny fraction of a poster's full humanity. We laugh. We love. We create. We cry. For these things, you don't need double-blind experiments. We're really not so bad when you come to know us.
I agree. Very human, we are all very different, which is pretty much the nature of this universe.
Everything is unique.
So lets be serious here, skeptics know they are wormfood at the end, so fear of being dead has gone out the window for most of us. Fear of not continuing this life, or being with loved ones is still there but thats standard human behaviour, nobody want's to die.
That is interesting and contrary to death.
What is it within the human being which doesn’t want to die?
Maybe it is simple something that knows it can’t die mixed with something that thinks it will die?
