Hypnosis: had any experience of it?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Have you ever entertained the idea that your friends might have set it all up just to freak you out?
How would you know the difference?

Oh my word. Your teen years must have been quite different from mine, or you don't have any siblings. I and my friends rarely did anything with my brothers and their friends. Nor did my brothers mix much with each other either.

When we were younger we did all play with the same neighborhood kids, but that was the extent of it.

So no, my brother barely knew Teri. He spent no time with her before the hypnosis thing.

Also, the ceiling thing was my idea, also unplanned.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

She was sitting on a couch and was kicking her legs to get down. No sure what you are picturing. I would imagine a person who was standing would do something different.

Think about it, if you weren't on the ceiling looking down you would come up with all those scenarios in your mind of how you'd react. But you can't say what you would do if suddenly you actually believed you were on the ceiling.

You can imagine all the reasons you want not to believe what I say I observed. She freaked out. The kicking was a natural reaction attempting to get down.

Wasn't a prediction, none of us had any idea the reaction would happen. And, I'm guessing other people might have reacted differently.

I am saying I recognized this person in this case freaked out in a way that would not have happened had she not actually been hallucinating she was on the ceiling.

No, that wasn't what you were saying at all. You said that myriad could not know what a natural reaction would be, and then in the same post go on to claim that you would.
The more you shift and wriggle on this, the less convincing you become. Sorry, but that's how it looks.

 

[Cervelo]

I have it on good authority that plate tectonics is a nonsense theory, the crust on the Earth is solid, obviously.

An H-pylori doesn't cause gastric ulcers, we already know it's stomach acid.

And they really should put the pump handle back on the Broad St Pump. People need water, especially if they are dehydrated.

That's going to be hard to do, that pump has been gone for decades....but I must say you could easily insert Bigfoot, ghost, UFO or any other woo of choice, for what you claim to have witnessed.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, that wasn't what you were saying at all. You said that myriad could not know what a natural reaction would be, and then in the same post go on to claim that you would.
The more you shift and wriggle on this, the less convincing you become. Sorry, but that's how it looks.

It's not me changing anything.

I said I recognized my friend was freaked out for real.

I didn't say I knew what a reaction to finding yourself on the ceiling would be, no one does, who else has it happened to?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's going to be hard to do, that pump has been gone for decades....but I must say you could easily insert Bigfoot, ghost, UFO or any other woo of choice, for what you claim to have witnessed.

When some scientific evidence of any of that woo surfaces and people who didn't believe deny the evidence for years, then you could say it.

Clear your mind of your current conclusion and look at the brain studies I cited.

It's not a nebulous picture or a video of a piano playing itself.

Do you know it took 10 years for Dr Snow's colleagues to accept his incredibly well-evidenced hypothesis about the cause of cholera? They had previously believed it was miasma (bad air).

 

[Wolrab]

But the hypnosis angle gained momentum in recent years after Sirhan was examined for more than 60 hours by a Harvard Medical School professor with vast expertise in forensic psychiatry and hypnosis. In a lengthy affidavit filed with Sirhan’s last appeal in 2011, Daniel P. Brown concluded that “Mr. Sirhan did not act under his own volition and knowledge at the time of the assassination and is not responsible for actions coerced and/or carried out by others.” He was, Brown said, a true “Manchurian Candidate,” hypno-programmed into carrying out a violent political act without knowing it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ed-to-be-the-fall-guy/?utm_term=.718fb2920467


Personally I think the poor professor is being duped.

 

[Cervelo]

When some scientific evidence of any of that woo surfaces and people who didn't believe deny the evidence for years, then you could say it.

Clear your mind of your current conclusion and look at the brain studies I cited.

It's not a nebulous picture or a video of a piano playing itself.

Do you know it took 10 years for Dr Snow's colleagues to accept his incredibly well-evidenced hypothesis about the cause of cholera? They had previously believed it was miasma (bad air).

Lamo logic indeed and very much like all woo peddlers, but your certainly demonstrating the near hysterical behavior on display by footers, UFOers, and conspiracy nut bags. But hey you can believe whatever crapola you choose.
It was the Short Pump reference that really got my interest, it was my old stomping grounds in my youth.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ed-to-be-the-fall-guy/?utm_term=.718fb2920467


Personally I think the poor professor is being duped.

There are so many confounding issues with that case. It does not qualify as evidence of anything except a person has an opinion.

I'm not sure why you've brought it up over and over in this thread.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Lamo logic indeed and very much like all woo peddlers, but your certainly demonstrating the near hysterical behavior on display by footers, UFOers, and conspiracy nut bags. But hey you can believe whatever crapola you choose.
It was the Short Pump reference that really got my interest, it was my old stomping grounds in my youth.

Hysterical? Seriously?

 

[Axxman300]

I've been thinking about hypnosis since arguing in another thread about Sirhan Sirhan.

Here are my questions about hypnosis:

If it works, why has it not been used to end crime?

If it works why do people still smoke, drink to excess, or abuse drugs?

If it works, why are there still fat people, and people with eating disorders?

I understand the power of suggestion; I was a salesman for 12 years. I understand that people who willingly buy into a belief system will see a world filled with incidents which support this belief system (UFO's, Bigfoot, ghosts, angels, etc). The idea that people can be reprogrammed without their consent doesn't wash with me.

 

[Cervelo]

Hysterical? Seriously?

Maybe review your own posts?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I've been thinking about hypnosis since arguing in another thread about Sirhan Sirhan.

Here are my questions about hypnosis:

If it works, why has it not been used to end crime?

Two reasons. One, it simply doesn't work the way you are imagining. Two, only a small number of people are hypnotizable.

If it works why do people still smoke, drink to excess, or abuse drugs?

If it works, why are there still fat people, and people with eating disorders?

Same thing, you have a misconception about what one can do with hypnosis.

I understand the power of suggestion; I was a salesman for 12 years. I understand that people who willingly buy into a belief system will see a world filled with incidents which support this belief system (UFO's, Bigfoot, ghosts, angels, etc). The idea that people can be reprogrammed without their consent doesn't wash with me.

That's nice, good thing hypnosis doesn't do that then.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Maybe review your own posts?

I'm sitting here on the couch, mellow as can be.

Care to quote the hysterical posts you imagine you see?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

It's not me changing anything.

I said I recognized my friend was freaked out for real.

I didn't say I knew what a reaction to finding yourself on the ceiling would be, no one does, who else has it happened to?

<sigh>

The kicking was a natural reaction attempting to get down.

 

[Wolrab]

There are so many confounding issues with that case. It does not qualify as evidence of anything except a person has an opinion.

I'm not sure why you've brought it up over and over in this thread.

It isn't just an opinion if is from an authority in the field is it? You are the one arguing some people are extremely easily hypnotized, Sirhan Sirhan has been said to be one of those people.

 

[xjx388]

I could make some wild claims about hypnosis. I could say that I hypnotized my wife into robbing a bank, for example. I could then point to the same studies that SG has cited here and say, "See, something is happening in the brain during hypnosis. One person even reported a color hallucination. This is evidence that I hypnotized my wife to rob that bank."

That would be a faulty conclusion. Those studies do not provide evidence that I hypnotized my wife into robbing a bank or, for that matter, that SGs friend was hypnotized into believing she was on the ceiling. At best they are weak evidence that 1)Certain changes in the brain occur during hypnosis and 2)These changes might be responsible for a mild visual hallucination involving color perception, some pain management, irritable bowel syndrome relief, smoking cessation, etc.

It strikes me as very similar to the UFOlogists who believe in aliens using the science about possible Earth-like exoplanets as evidence that the weird light they saw in the sky was an alien craft. IOW, you can't connect those dots just yet because there is too much that we just don't know.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It isn't just an opinion if is from an authority in the field is it? You are the one arguing some people are extremely easily hypnotized, Sirhan Sirhan has been said to be one of those people.

He may be easily hypnotizable. The evidence supports the existence of a hypnotic state in such people.

In that state they can be induced to hallucinate.

What there is no evidence for is that a person can be given post-hypnotic instructions to do anything significant, nor can they be induced to do anything like murder someone.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

<sigh>

Sigh...

You can't twist the argument around to change what I said. That's not how it works.

My friend is told she's on the ceiling looking down. Immediately she starts screaming and kicking her legs.

Believe what you want.

An argument that the reaction should have been something else is baseless.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I could make some wild claims about hypnosis. I could say that I hypnotized my wife into robbing a bank, for example. I could then point to the same studies that SG has cited here and say, "See, something is happening in the brain during hypnosis. One person even reported a color hallucination. This is evidence that I hypnotized my wife to rob that bank."

That would be a faulty conclusion. Those studies do not provide evidence that I hypnotized my wife into robbing a bank or, for that matter, that SGs friend was hypnotized into believing she was on the ceiling. At best they are weak evidence that 1)Certain changes in the brain occur during hypnosis and 2)These changes might be responsible for a mild visual hallucination involving color perception, some pain management, irritable bowel syndrome relief, smoking cessation, etc.

It strikes me as very similar to the UFOlogists who believe in aliens using the science about possible Earth-like exoplanets as evidence that the weird light they saw in the sky was an alien craft. IOW, you can't connect those dots just yet because there is too much that we just don't know.

It does not follow.

The evidence supports that hallucinations can be induced in highly hypnotizable people.

Nothing in your scenarios is supportable by that evidence. You'd be drawing a conclusion not supported by the study, a common research error.

In addition, I've not used my anecdote as evidence for hypnosis except on a personal level. You are once again attacking me and ignoring the actual cited evidence.

I saw the reaction. I know hypnosis is real. Then a wave of opinion comes out that hypnosis is not real. People have all sorts of rationalizations as to why a person would go along who wasn't hypnotized.

Given I know it is real, I simply looked for research that validates what hypnosis actually is/does and looked for why so many people don't believe it.

I said it up thread.

First, it doesn't do what people claim, such as make a person rob a bank.
Second, only some people can be hypnotized.
Third, studies of brain function are much advanced now.

Some people can be induced to hallucinate under hypnosis.

Beyond that, there is no supporting evidence I found looking at what's currently out there.

 

[xjx388]

It does not follow.

The evidence supports that hallucinations can be induced in highly hypnotizable people.

Nothing in your scenarios is supportable by that evidence. You'd be drawing a conclusion not supported by the study, a common research error.

In addition, I've not used my anecdote as evidence for hypnosis except on a personal level. You are once again attacking me and ignoring the actual cited evidence.

I saw the reaction. I know hypnosis is real. Then a wave of opinion comes out that hypnosis is not real. People have all sorts of rationalizations as to why a person would go along who wasn't hypnotized.

Given I know it is real, I simply looked for research that validates what hypnosis actually is/does and looked for why so many people don't believe it.

I said it up thread.

First, it doesn't do what people claim, such as make a person rob a bank.
Second, only some people can be hypnotized.
Third, studies of brain function are much advanced now.

Some people can be induced to hallucinate under hypnosis.

Beyond that, there is no supporting evidence I found looking at what's currently out there.

I'm not attacking you; I'm attacking the idea that the evidence supports your stated belief. The evidence supports (weakly) the idea that hypnosis causes certain brain changes and can cause a very mild hallucination in one highly hypnotizable person (but not so much another person) that they studied. That person seemed to perceive all squares as a specific color.

-It does not follow from the evidence that the subject actually perceived all squares as such.
-It does not follow from the evidence that that all highly hypnotizable subjects can so hallucinate.
-It does not follow from the evidence that that anyone can be hypnotized to hallucinate so vividly that they perceive themselves as being on the ceiling -a hallucination so realistic that it causes a genuine panic reaction.

You had an experience which convinced you and that's fine as far as it goes. You cannot argue, however, that the current science validates your perception of that experience. It simply does not. And given what we know about stage hypnosis, it is far more likely that you were simply fooled by a good performance.