Hybrid cars

BenBurch said:
They pollute a whole lot less than other cars, remember that was the original point, not economy.
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That's questionable. For one thing, cars that use electricity still need power, but they get it from the power grid which mostly still burns fossil fuels to generate electricity. It just moves the air pollution outside of the city. That's a good thing, but it is not as efficient as generating power at the point of usage.

Another thing is the batteries themselves. Their construction uses a lot of heavy metals and generates a lot of pollution in the form of chemicals used in making them. The other problem is disposal. If the construction uses nasty stuff, the batteries themselves are nasty little packages of trouble which have to have extra-special care in disposal lest those metals and such leach into the water table.

However, self regenerating brakes and "no power" idling are good things, and there are many other good things about them. They're sure as hell not a solution to pollution though. They just make different kinds in different places.
 
I would argue there may be a net benefit.

It may take pollutants to create the battery, but that must be compared to the pollution the vehicle would emit over the lifetime of a battery.

Moving some of the energy to the power grid doesn't inherently decrease pollution, but reducing the pollution at the source can be done instead of at the end point. Easier.
 
Tricky said:
cars that use electricity still need power, but they get it from the power grid... It just moves the air pollution outside of the city... it is not as efficient as generating power at the point of usage.
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Not true. Car engines are much less efficient than modern fossil fueled power plants. Despite losses in electricity generation and transmission, battery charging and electric motor operation, an electric vehicle can still be more efficient than a typical IC engine powered car.

What is moved outside the city is the ability to reduce CO2 emissions by making those power plants more efficient, or using other processes that don't emit CO2. It may be easier to reduce the amount of CO2 leaving the power plant, rather than trying to pluck it out of the atmosphere once it has left the tailpipe of an IC engine.

Another thing is the batteries themselves. Their construction uses a lot of heavy metals and generates a lot of pollution in the form of chemicals used in making them
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Which heavy metals? How is that different from the heavy metals and chemicals used in conventional automobiles?
 
Tricky said:
That's questionable. For one thing, cars that use electricity still need power, but they get it from the power grid which mostly still burns fossil fuels to generate electricity. It just moves the air pollution outside of the city. That's a good thing, but it is not as efficient as generating power at the point of usage.
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Actually, joule for joule, the grid generates less pollution than the mobile plant in cars. How much less is highly location dependent (Oregon gets a large portion from hydroelectric, Michigan, not so much), but the national average was around 10% in 2010. For one, large, stationary plants have immense systems for capturing/filtering the exhaust that are impractical to implement in cars. Also, the large plants run at or near optimum performance speeds all the time while cars' plants vary the rpm constantly, rarely running at optimum.

Check out the July 2010 issue of Scientific American for information on the pollution and oil consumption gains (or losses in some cases) from using hybrid and full electric cars in different regions of the US.
 
BenBurch said:
They pollute a whole lot less than other cars, remember that was the original point, not economy.
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The hybrid car is not going to improve things so much on the open highway, but most cars seem to spend most of their driving time in the suburbs and stuck in heavy traffic. This is where a hybrid saves a lot of fuel.

The high efficiency turbo charged small diesels give you good economy on the open road, and better fuel economy in the suburbs and the peak hour.

The car companies seem to have had to dedicate their research to one or the other. The maturing of technology should allow the small diesel to be paired with the electric technology, giving all around fuel savings.
 
MattusMaximus said:
...(I've averaged about 50 mpg over the life of the car)...
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This is about what I get too. If my back-of-envelope calculation is accurate, that is. Usually it gets between 5.0 and 5.3 l/100km.

MattusMaximus said:
...and it actually has quite a lot of storage space...
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This is a big plus for me, too.

MattusMaximus said:
Concerning the battery pack, the only thing that hung me up originally on buying the Prius was concern that the batteries could go out. They cost about $10,000 to replace (or they did back in 2005), and I understandably didn't want to get stuck with a huge bill to get new ones if it were necessary. At the time, Toyota had a special 8-year warranty on the battery pack wherein they would replace it for free in that time if anything went wrong. That closed the deal for me.
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I expect that when my battery pack goes, I'll trade up to a newer model. Or a hybrid Camry or something. Whatever's cheaper.
 
You'll want to trade up before... bring it in with a bad battery and wouldn't they nail you on the trade-in?
 
do any of the hybrid owners live in a cold place? -40ish... how do the batteries handle cold weather? do they struggle to start or to charge? do they not last as long? i've been thinking of buying a civic hybrid, but it gets pretty cold around here.

cheers
 
Tesla has a showroom here now. They have the entire chasis and drivetrain for their new sedan on display. Pretty neat stuff. The future world of electric sports cars is going to be exciting. Once battery tech has improved to the point where we get a decent run time I suspect we'll see some really neat electric sports car that are very efficient but go like hell when you put your foot down.
 
CynicalSkeptic said:
Yeah, the actuaries that work for the warranty companies say the same thing.
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The question isn't really whether the warranty companies will make money--like an insurance company, they will. It's a question of whether a hedge against that sudden hit of battery failure is worth the cost.
 
NewtonTrino said:
Once battery tech has improved to the point where we get a decent run time I suspect we'll see some really neat electric sports car
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I think contemporary battery technology is holding back a lot of neat inventions. Compared to other technology advances, today's batteries rather suck.
 
ZirconBlue said:
I see quite a lot of options here.


ETA: That list includes other fuel-efficient cars, not just hybrids.
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Sorry I've taken so long to reply. I don't often frequent the forums over the weekends.

On the list you posted, only 31 of the (approximately?) 100 cars are hybrids. Of those 31, 12 are over $50,000 and 13 can't even manage over 25 MPG combined. Only two (the Honda CRZ and GMC Sierra Hybrid) are not an SUV or a sedan. While I was technically incorrect and there are hybrid options that aren't a "mid to large size grocery getter type family car", the options are style quite limited.

Now, if you're willing to accept cars which aren't obtainable...a Porsche 918 or 911 GT3 R Hybrid would be an interesting choice :D
 
I have a 2008 Nissan X-Trail 2.5L Gasoline.

It DRINKS gas. I haven't actually done the math, but it is absolutely horrific on fuel. I'm going to predict I get something like 100km = 13 litres.

We're thinking of buying a second little teeny car (like a Suzuki Swift) for running around to the shops and things, because the Nissan is SO bad on fuel.

Hybrids haven't really taken off in Chile yet - even though our fuel prices are pretty steep (About $1.60 a liter)
 
Honda got back to me: Honda Corporate would pay 25%... of the 2.5K battery array. Which would have a 1 year/12000 mile warranty (then there would be $900 for other repairs to be done). No thanks. Going tonight to get a trade-in for a non-hybrid car (with decent mileage)
 
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