Hybrid cars

[lionking]

Well I handed back my Camry today having driven around 100 kms. The hire car guy asked me if I topped it up. "No" I said. He said "Well you didn't need to".

I wasn't towing anything and didn't need to put my foot down to get anywhere in a hurry. I found it a perfectly acceptable way of getting around a crowded city. I've driven diesels which were very economical, but nothing like this.

 

[Arisia]

2010 Prius base model. We needed a new car since our '98 Outback died in early 2010 and the Prius was on the list, but not the only one we looked at. The Volt wasn't available yet, the Honda Fit was too small in the back seat, the Insight didn't have enough headroom in the back seat and diesel is usually 40 - 50 cents more a gallon than regular grade gasoline, so any VW we might look at would have to have that figured in. The Prius has a big enough back seat for three adults, with plenty of leg room and headroom back there, too. We do try to keep in mind the best way to drive the car, but we don't get pedantic about it.
Mr Arisia has actually connected a small power inverter to the regular battery (which is in the rear of the car, not the engine compartment), which means we can plug the fridge into the Prius during a power outage, and we've actually used it to power our bread machine to make pizza dough when we were driving down to his parents' house.
Every time I've asked (and I ask every time I take the car in for the free scheduled services every 5000 miles), the service and parts people at my local Toyota dealer have said they haven't yet seen any battery packs from first-gen models need replacement due to old age.

 

[Cuddles]

I see quite a lot of options here.

Aside from most of those being, in fact, mid-size family cars, I can't help being amused that their "fuel efficient" list includes 20mpg (20 American, 24 UK) diesel SUVs. A crappy 15 year old petrol car is more efficient than that.

They pollute a whole lot less than other cars, remember that was the original point, not economy.

Well, no. The original point was that they use less fuel, and therefore both pollute less and are more economic. The only slight problem being that, as you'd know if you'd actually read the thread, they don't actually use less fuel.

The answer is "it depends"

Even if a hybrid uses more fuel than a corresponding diesel, it may be that because it primarily uses electricity around town the pollution ends up out of town where it causes fewer problems rather than in town so more pollution overall but less where it matters.

That could only work if people always made a long journey out of town every time the battery starts running low. In reality, the pollution is going to average out over the whole range most people drive. It's also worth bearing in mind that the focus tends to be on CO₂ rather than other stuff these days, since smog is not so much of a problem in most Western cities any more, and it really doesn't matter where you're releasing that.

Unless you're talking about pug-ins that is. I've never actually met anyone who has one, but they seem like a pretty decent step towards eventually having useful all-electric cars, since they allow you to be mostly electric while still letting you drive long distances.

As far as the electricity is concerned, I believe in the case of Hybrid electric-petroleum vehicles most (all ?) of the electricity is generated regeneratively so that's less of an issue.

It's not possible to generate most of it regeneratively. Regenerative braking means you can recover some of the energy you've already generated, but you still have to generate it in the first place, and that can only come from either the petrol engine or plugging it in somewhere.

 

[arthwollipot]

In any regenerative braking situation you're going to lose energy in the form of heat. You can't win, you can't break even, and you can't even get out of the game.

 

[gnome]

But you can waste less.

Hybrid Civic 2004... no all-electric option, which would have been nice when the battery is especially high. I love the CVT!!! But, for a 30 mile commute with a moderate amount of stopping, I routinely get about 43-45 MPG during the summer and 50-52 MPG during the winter.

Long interstate drives seemed to hover around 42.

Heavy traffic tends to bring it down to about 40--because it won't shut down the engine at stops unless you were going greater than 10 mph.

I bought it with 30K miles on it, and was hoping to trade it in for a newer one before the battery went. I lost that gamble because I took too long of a loan and failed to increase my income as much as I'd hoped--I had planned to start paying down the loan faster than it was due.

Now that I've got the replacement battery, I may keep it until it dies, or until my financial situation changes dramatically.

I may be paying more in the long run, car price vs. gas mileage, but I've really enjoyed not being hit hard by gas price fluctuations. It helps keep my budget stable. Theoretically I could have put the money I saved by buying a non-hybrid of otherwise similar condition into an account and used that to buy gas, but who does that? I'd wind up spending it on something stupid. It's similar to the theoretical benefit of reducing your withholding as much as possible and putting your expected tax payment into an account all year. It's technically true but rarely works out that way unless you have more self-discipline than I do.

Did I see a Hyundai ad that gave a super-extended warranty for their batteries? That might get me away from Honda if it's not a gimmick. Anyone know about that?

 

[WildCat]

Aside from most of those being, in fact, mid-size family cars, I can't help being amused that their "fuel efficient" list includes 20mpg (20 American, 24 UK) diesel SUVs. A crappy 15 year old petrol car is more efficient than that.

But can the comparison car tow a 6,000lb boat?

 

[bignickel]

Has anyone owned or driven a hybrid car? What are your comments? As good as a standard car? Better? Worse?

I'll let you know my opinion of my Honda Insight after the garage informs me whether or not Honda is going to pay for any of my main battery replacement, after it died 4 years after being put in.

 

[gnome]

That nicely sums up my impression on a Prius test drive. I thought it was a numb, uninvolving car to drive. I felt as if I was issuing orders to the steering and engine room of a ship rather than driving the thing myself.

Out of curiosity, did you perceive a literal lack of performance or are you referring to a psychological dissatisfaction (such as, preferring more physical feedback or manual controls regardless of their effect on performance)?

For me, the feeling of issuing "orders" that could be carried out more competently than my own manual actions could produce, would be a feature

 

[gnome]

I'll let you know my opinion of my Honda Insight after the garage informs me whether or not Honda is going to pay for any of my main battery replacement, after it died 4 years after being put in.

Let us know the result. The Honda dealership where I bought mine offered a warranty that consisted of 8 years or equivalent mileage, whichever expired sooner.

(my mileage expired sooner, but I can't say I'm dissatisfied with how long the battery lasted. I had just hoped to have the chance to swap out sooner.)

I would not purchase a Hybrid again without very close attention to the battery warranty. An extended warranty would be a plus if the numbers work out well.

 

[Modified]

In reality, the pollution is going to average out over the whole range most people drive. It's also worth bearing in mind that the focus tends to be on CO₂ rather than other stuff these days, since smog is not so much of a problem in most Western cities any more, and it really doesn't matter where you're releasing that.

Most big and medium sized cities still smell like exhaust. It would be nice if that weren't the case.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Out of curiosity, did you perceive a literal lack of performance or are you referring to a psychological dissatisfaction (such as, preferring more physical feedback or manual controls regardless of their effect on performance)?

I didn't think there was any lack of performance. I thought the steering felt numb and throttle response lacked a certain directness. My daily driver is a Mazda MX-5 so maybe I'm used to a more directly involving driving experience, but the car the Prius hoped to replace was my wife's then Nissan Primera which I still felt was much more pleasing to drive than the Prius.

(We test drove a lot worse cars though. The Prius was smooth, quiet and quick enough. Wife's opinion, IIRC - "not as special as I'd hoped". A Peugeot we drove the same day got dismissed as a "domestic appliance". )

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Most big and medium sized cities still smell like exhaust. It would be nice if that weren't the case.

I've noticed they smell a bit of cleaning fluid these days, now that so many diesels have Adblu* type exhaust scrubbing systems.

(*Injects a urea solution into the exhaust which heat breaks down to ammonia and that reacts with nitrogen oxides in the exhaust gases.)

 

[rustypouch]

I'd like to get a Porsche 918, when they're available... >.>

 

[MattusMaximus]

I've driven my Toyota Prius since 2005 and I can say without hesitation that it's the best car I've ever driven. It handles like a dream, is very efficient regarding gas use (I've averaged about 50 mpg over the life of the car), and it actually has quite a lot of storage space. Not to mention, after 120,000 miles it still runs just as well as it did when new. The only maintenance I've had to do is the usual stuff along with the occasional tune-up.

Concerning the battery pack, the only thing that hung me up originally on buying the Prius was concern that the batteries could go out. They cost about $10,000 to replace (or they did back in 2005), and I understandably didn't want to get stuck with a huge bill to get new ones if it were necessary. At the time, Toyota had a special 8-year warranty on the battery pack wherein they would replace it for free in that time if anything went wrong. That closed the deal for me.

I plan on driving it for a very long time, and I would recommend it to anyone interested in basically having a car for standard stuff. It might not be your first choice, however, if you plan to haul a load of bricks or go off-roading

 

[BenBurch]

As of 2008 a first gen Prius battery was under $3000. As the air conditioning compressor was almost $2000, this isn't a huge expense for an otherwise solid ten year old car.

 

[billw]

We love our 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid. Honda never sold many (a little too pricey, and since discontinued), and some potential buyers didn't like that the car was engineered perhaps more for performance than speed: the electric motor gives you another 15 horses on top of the gasoline V6. Zero to sixty in 5.9 seconds. Since the vehicle looks exactly like a standard Accord, I've gotten a few incredulous looks from BMW drivers when I zoom past them on the freeway onramp ;-)

Here's what the car does in terms of fuel economy:

1) Engine shuts off when you stop (under software control; doesn't happen under all circumstances). As soon as you take your foot off the brake pedal, the engine restarts instantly, and away you go.

2) Highway cruising mode - 3 of the 6 cylinders shut down

3) Regenerative braking charges the high-voltage batteries

4) Coasting downhill puts the motor/generator into generator mode, charging the high-voltage batteries

Dashboard displays show real-time charging/discharging of the motor/generator, MPG, and high-voltage battery charge - giving you the basic feedback tools you need to moderate your driving habits, if you want to achieve better gas mileage.

 

[Gods Big Toe]

That nicely sums up my impression on a Prius test drive. I thought it was a numb, uninvolving car to drive. I felt as if I was issuing orders to the steering and engine room of a ship rather than driving the thing myself.

I was trying to make a joke about genetics (sterile hybrids), but I see your point.

 

[excaza]

I'm hoping the Volt gets a more efficient gas engine and a price cut. It's a fantastic first step, but my daily commute wouldn't really take advantage of it enough to offset the cost.

That and I should probably move closer to work.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I was trying to make a joke about genetics (sterile hybrids)

I know. I liked it.

 

[Grinder]

Anybody have experience with the Volt?

I'm thinking of getting one, but wished the battery-only range was greater than 35 miles.