Hybrid cars

[lionking]

Has anyone owned or driven a hybrid car? What are your comments? As good as a standard car? Better? Worse?

The reason I ask is that when I picked up a hire car today, I was asked if a Camry was okay. "Sure" I said, thinking it was a standard Camry, but of course it was a hybrid. Not having an ignition key I pushed the Start button (yeah, I know, Mensa candidate me....), only to think "what's wrong with this bloody thing" when nothing seemed to happen. I got out out of the car and asked the Hertz guy how to start it. "It already is" was his response, no doubt for the millionth time. I had no idea that a hybrid, while running on batteries, would be silent. Weird at first, but this car quickly grew on me, not only due to it's silent running, but also because the fuel gauge was determined to stay on full.

I was led to believe that hybrids were crap cars, largely by Jeremy Clarkson, but can see myself buying one in future. I know they cost more, and maybe a conventional car is more economical over time, but I like them.

 

[The Don]

I have no personal experience, but when has this ever stopped me offering my "wisdom"

Whether a hybrid is good for you depends on a number of factors most of which come down to usage. In terms of fuel economy, I understand that a good hybrid is nearly as good as a good diesel in general usage.

Almost all of my driving, more than 95% in fact, is done on UK motorways at between 75 and 85 mph (120 aand 135 km/h). Under these circumstances a hybrid may actually make fuel consumption worse on the grounds that I'm dragging around a lot of electrical hardware that's almost never used (even when I'm not on the motorway, I'm zooming down country lanes, up and down steep hills).

When we lived in town OTOH, about 50% of Mrs Don's driving would have suited a hybrid perfectly, short trips, low speeds, stop-start.

There are also the costs of replacing the batteries and so forth but then again the particulate filters on diesel engines can rack up some significant costs over time. You pays your money, you take your chance.

These days, living in the country on single track roads when I'm a pedestrian I prefer rattly old diesels you can hear coming a mile away as opposed to quiet petrol (and even worse hybrid) vehicles that can sneak up on a chap and scare the bejesus out of him

 

[Eddie Dane]

I'm on the fence about them.

Are they actually better for the environment then normal cars?

As opposed to a comparable (in size and functionality) fuel-efficient conventional car?

At least they've passed the stage where they have to look weird and futuristic as to advertise the fact that it is in fact hybrid.

The new Hibrid Peugeots look positively cool.
http://www.autoblog.nl/archive/2011/07/11/peugeot-508-rxh-premium-diesel-hybride

 

[lionking]

The Don

I agree with a lot of your post. Around the city a hybrid might be a very good option, or even a full battery car. I've been trying to convince my boss to purchase electric cars for our inner city offices.

 

[lionking]

I'm on the fence about them.

Are they actually better for the environment then normal cars?

As opposed to a comparable (in size and functionality) fuel-efficient conventional car?

At least they've passed the stage where they have to look weird and futuristic as to advertise the fact that it is in fact hybrid.

The new Hibrid Peugeots look positively cool.
http://www.autoblog.nl/archive/2011/07/11/peugeot-508-rxh-premium-diesel-hybride

A diesel hybrid seems even more sensible than a petrol hybrid.

I should add that my knowledge of cars is quite rudimentary.

 

[The Don]

W.r.t the article posted and claimed MPG and CO₂

I'm a little sceptical of the MPG, and as a consequence the CO₂ figures for Hybrid cars. It's not the fault of the manufacturers, they just run the car through the Euro-standard tests but the results don't seem to tally with the real world (or at least my version of it).

Honest John, who writes for the Daily Telegraph (old fashioned conservative (and Conservative)) newspaper has a Real Life MPG register. It seems that in general the higher the official MPG, the greater the discrepancy in both relative and absolute terms.

In my own experience, and please realise that my driving is atypical of the population at large......

• Driving my own 2003 SAAB 9-3 1.8T I get 34-38 mpg against an official figure of 37mpg
• Driving Mrs Don's 2008 Skoda Fabia 1.2 12V I get 31-24 mpg against an official figure of 50mpg
• Driving my 1989 Jaguar XJ-S 3.6 Auto I get 25-29 mpg against an average of 24mpg

Now maybe it's because of the speed I travel and gearing (both Jaguar and Saab are geared at 30mph/1000rpm in top, the Skoda is 20mph/1000rpm in top) but it does feel to me that the Euro test is about achieving the best possible result rather than real world driving.

I can't really see huge Lexus SUV Hybrids actually getting mid 30's mpg.

 

[BenBurch]

I own a 2002 Prius (original American model) and a 2010 3rd generation Prius package IV.

Both are great cars.

The 2002 has 140,000 miles on it, and is still working well. The 2010 just passed 20,000 miles.

 

[arthwollipot]

I've driven a Series 1 Prius for about four years now. It's absolutely bombproof. Nothing stops it. Except for those things that stop it. When something goes wrong, the car's computer just stops it running. It took my local Toyota dealer weeks to work out what was going wrong (a faulty sensor that prevented the main battery from recharging). But once they had figured it out, and fixed it, the car returned to being absolutely bombproof. I love it.

And I pay literally half as much in petrol as I did when I had a Rav4. It's the best car I've ever driven, and it's an old model. The newer hybrids are even better. Or so I'm told.

 

[Mark6]

I have a 2008 Camry hybrid, and I love it. It is, to put it simply, the most comfortable car I ever owned. Depending on driving conditions, it gets 36-41 mpg in summer, and 28-32 in winter, and I have no problems with performance or cargo capacity.

 

[Cuddles]

Has anyone owned or driven a hybrid car? What are your comments? As good as a standard car? Better? Worse?

Perfectly decent cars, but not really worth it. On paper, they're at the high end of mileage but still not actually the best (see here). In practice, you'll struggle to do better than most modern <2 litre diesels.

Mileage aside, it depends a lot on what you want. There's still not a huge amount of choice for hybrids, so if you don't want a mid-size family car, you're pretty much out of luck. It's also worth bearing in mind that they don't have a huge amount of torque, and hybrid engines get a lot less efficient when they have to work hard, so they're far from ideal if you're going to be carrying heavy loads a lot.

But other than that, based on the Prius at least, they're comfortable, convenient, and reliable. They're not going to save the world and are a bit overpriced for what you actually get, but they're not bad cars at all.

 

[MechEng]

...Mileage aside, it depends a lot on what you want. There's still not a huge amount of choice for hybrids, so if you don't want a mid-size family car, you're pretty much out of luck...

This. I'm not as terribly familiar with the cars available in other markets, but in the US, every (reasonably obtainable) hybrid I can think of is a mid to large size grocery getter type family car. They're good for what they are; but realize that, just as with sports cars, what they are can be seriously limiting.

 

[carlitos]

They're not going to save the world and are a bit overpriced for what you actually get, but they're not bad cars at all.

My local Home Depot has "alternative fuel vehicle" parking spaces close to the store. I park my regular fuel car in them just to combat the sanctimony.

 

[ZirconBlue]

This. I'm not as terribly familiar with the cars available in other markets, but in the US, every (reasonably obtainable) hybrid I can think of is a mid to large size grocery getter type family car.

I see quite a lot of options here.



ETA: That list includes other fuel-efficient cars, not just hybrids.

 

[cwalner]

But other than that, based on the Prius at least, they're comfortable, convenient, and reliable. They're not going to save the world and are a bit overpriced for what you actually get, but they're not bad cars at all.

I had a different experience. I test drove an early Prius and did not like it at all. For me the rear window seemed too narrow and I felt I had too many blind spots to be comfortable driving it. Although I did dig on the start button rather than using the key to turn it on.

As for efficiency, the only thing stopping me from getting a fully electric car (like the Nissan Leaf) is that I live in an apartment and don't have access to an outlet to charge the car overnight. Otherwise, my driving habits are ideal for a fully electric car, even with their limited range.

 

[BenBurch]

They pollute a whole lot less than other cars, remember that was the original point, not economy.

 

[WildCat]

My local Home Depot has "alternative fuel vehicle" parking spaces close to the store. I park my regular fuel car in them just to combat the sanctimony.

Gasoline is an alternative.

 

[Eddie Dane]

They pollute a whole lot less than other cars, remember that was the original point, not economy.

Is that true though?

Batteries are full of heavy metals, many raw materials are mined in Canada, shipped to Japan, put in a car, shipped to the States.
And how is the electricity for the car generated? Coal? How efficient was the transport of that electricity? Etc.

I don't know if they are cleaner, I'm not a tech guy.
But it wouldn't surprise me if the were just as polluting as a regular car.

 

[Gods Big Toe]

The problem with hybrids is that some are sterile.

 

[The Don]

Is that true though?

Batteries are full of heavy metals, many raw materials are mined in Canada, shipped to Japan, put in a car, shipped to the States.
And how is the electricity for the car generated? Coal? How efficient was the transport of that electricity? Etc.

I don't know if they are cleaner, I'm not a tech guy.
But it wouldn't surprise me if the were just as polluting as a regular car.

The answer is "it depends"

Even if a hybrid uses more fuel than a corresponding diesel, it may be that because it primarily uses electricity around town the pollution ends up out of town where it causes fewer problems rather than in town so more pollution overall but less where it matters.

I believe that you are right about manufacturing pollution and the pollution associated with decommissioning and recycling the batteries.

As far as the electricity is concerned, I believe in the case of Hybrid electric-petroleum vehicles most (all ?) of the electricity is generated regeneratively so that's less of an issue.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The problem with hybrids is that some are sterile.

That nicely sums up my impression on a Prius test drive. I thought it was a numb, uninvolving car to drive. I felt as if I was issuing orders to the steering and engine room of a ship rather than driving the thing myself.