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How powerful is human immune system?

Do you think the body can cure itself of incurable diseases?

  • yes

    Votes: 8 5.7%
  • no

    Votes: 133 94.3%

  • Total voters
    141
Right. That is where you and medicine is wrong. Diabetes is a pathogenic disease and the vaccinations for cattle though created to reach specific pathogens will reach other pathogens. Of course that isn't the case with cattle and diabetes. The medicine may not be labeled to prevent diabetes but rest assured it YOU personally treated cattle the same as you treat horsed or house pets THEY WILL GET DIABETES.

That is why cattle do not get diabetes. They are vaccinated against it.


Erm, no. Cows get diabetes, it is not as common as it is in sheep or pigs, but they get it.

There is a hypothesis that type I diabetes may have a infectious/viral origin, but it is not definitive.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC385452/
Can Vet J. 2003 November; 44(11): 921–922. PMCID: PMC385452

© Copyright and/or publishing rights held by the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association

Diabetes mellitus in a 6-month-old Charolais heifer calf
 
You didn't have a question, you had an argument and you believe the autoimmune is a killer.

You are as dumb as door stop. You believe there is no cure and I can prove there is a cure. What answer could I possible give a door stop that would seem reasonable? LOL YOU JUST TOLD US THE AUTOIMMUNE IS THE KILLER!

IS ANYONE SUSPICIOUS OF THAT? DO ALL OF YOU BELIEVE THE AUTOIMMUNE SYSTEM TURNS ON YOU AND KILLS YOU? I WANT SOME ANSWERS. I WANT 10 PEOPLE TO COMMIT TO WHETHER THEY BELIEVE THEIR AUTOIMMUNE CAN TURN ON THEM AND KILL THEM. THEN I WILL CONSIDER GIVING YOU MY OPINION SO YOU CAN COMPARE IT WITH THE OPINION OF MEDICINE WHO SAYS THE AUTOIMMUNE KILLS PEOPLE!

Now I am going to go outside and play for a few hours why you dinks chew on that.

Please let there be someone in this group who questions Tatyana's nonsense about the AUTOIMMUNE TURNING ON PEOPLE.



I didn't say killer.

I said that autoimmune disorders are often incurable.

No offense, but it is fairly obvious that as you are calling me dumb, I have hit on something you can't answer.

Go on, give me your cure to SLE or type I diabetes.

:)
 
No offense, but it is fairly obvious that as you are calling me dumb, I have hit on something you can't answer.



It is your fault for putting your picture up as your avatar. You are a woman with more muscle mass than he has, so clearly you must be dumb.
 
You didn't have a question, you had an argument and you believe the autoimmune is a killer.

You are as dumb as door stop. You believe there is no cure and I can prove there is a cure. What answer could I possible give a door stop that would seem reasonable? LOL YOU JUST TOLD US THE AUTOIMMUNE IS THE KILLER!

IS ANYONE SUSPICIOUS OF THAT? DO ALL OF YOU BELIEVE THE AUTOIMMUNE SYSTEM TURNS ON YOU AND KILLS YOU? I WANT SOME ANSWERS. I WANT 10 PEOPLE TO COMMIT TO WHETHER THEY BELIEVE THEIR AUTOIMMUNE CAN TURN ON THEM AND KILL THEM. THEN I WILL CONSIDER GIVING YOU MY OPINION SO YOU CAN COMPARE IT WITH THE OPINION OF MEDICINE WHO SAYS THE AUTOIMMUNE KILLS PEOPLE!

Now I am going to go outside and play for a few hours why you dinks chew on that.

Please let there be someone in this group who questions Tatyana's nonsense about the AUTOIMMUNE TURNING ON PEOPLE.
I know it turns me on.

Also, you might want to cure that hypertension. I'd hate to be responsible for more deaths than I already am...
 
Dang, I am going to have to turn everything off. Smallpox is pathogen and be assured mice can get it. It may not cause the same signs and symptom in mice as humans and it may not cause any signs and symptoms but mice can get it.
Also they may only get it for a short spell because unlike modern man, mice still have an immune system.

Pathogens are pathogens. Sheep and cows are both subject to the exact same pathogens UNLESS they are effectively vaccinated against one or the other.

Because "disease" is just a name for signs and symptoms grouped together it in no way classifies a different variety of pathogens which means one virus in a cow might cause different signs and symptoms is say a sheep or mouse.

Also, diabetes is diabetes no matter if you are a cat, mouse or human in so much as there is a failure in the pancreas allowing issues with insulin production. Cows would have insulin production issues if they were not prevented from having the signs and symptoms associated with the disease known as diabetes.

I hate to seem cocky but if you learn how to cure diseases said to be incurable you to will be cocky.

Then how would you know they had it?
 
Boy did Mr. David Flowers walk into the wrong place in his "send me monies" campaign.

But I must say, I agree with him on 1 point: modern medicine is a scam.

The medical establishment is scamming people into living longer lives (30 years longer in the US compared to a 100 years ago),
so that they can sell them more medicines.:rolleyes:
 
Sharecures you made a mistake comming in here with your woo woo cures. This website has physicians who are on to your little game. They won't let you kill innocent people and take their money while your doing it. Unfortunantly there are gullible people in the world who may fall victim to your non existent cures. This will not go unchallenged. You better quit while your ahead.
 
Sharecuresyou made a mistake comming in here with your woo woo cures. This website physicians who on to your little game. They won't let you kill innocent people and take their money while your doing it. Unfortunantly there are gullible people in the world who may fall victim to your non existent cures. This will noot go unchallenged. You better quit while your ahead.



It is too late for him, he already jumped into the lion's den. He came here looking for more business, instead he pissed off people who will shut him down for good.
 
Are you really going to play stupid? Come on be better than that. Maybe you can't say? Did you sign something that said you will not divulge certain information critical to protect medicine from cures?


Oh dear. You really don't know anything, do you?

You know as well as I do if go to D&B or Tractor Supply and compare sheep vaccines with cattle vaccines many of the active ingredients especially the ones that eliminate pancreatic flukes are the same.


If I go to an agricultural merchant, I will not be able to buy vaccines, because these can only be supplied by a vet or on a veterinary prescriptions. However, the diseases sheep and cattle are vaccinated against are quite different. Cattle, it's things like BVD and IBR. Sheep, it's mainly clostridia and pasteurellae.

The only vaccine available against a parasite (as opposed to bacteria and viruses) is the one for cattle that protects against lungworm. Nice though it would be to be able to vaccinate against fluke, no such vaccine exists.

Just so everyone knows, Rolfe is suggesting that cattle and sheep are not vaccinated for diabetes. I can't pick on her for being stupid because the labels have changed and no longer mention the treatment of diabetes causing pathogens and parasites as they once did.


Labels of livestock vaccines never mentioned diabetes, because there is no identified pathogenic cause for diabetes in any species, and no vaccine either. Never has been.

At one time the labels make it clear that they eliminated pancreatic parasites but when people made the connection between diabetes and parasites the labels changed.


You wouldn't care to show us these amazing old labels, would you? :oldroll:
There has never been a vaccine against any sort of fluke, pancreatic or otherwise.

Sheep and cattle vaccinations treat all parasites in all organs including the pancreas and this is why sheep and cattle or diabetes free.


No, the only vaccine available to protect against a parasite is the one against lungworm in cattle. This, unsurprisingly, offers no protection against intestinal nematodes or flukes of any description. There are no such products.

Rolfe.
 
Maybe he can regrow kidneys?:duck:

Speaking of kidneys, I was wondering if ShareCures could tell me if vets used to vaccinate cats against kidney disease just as they used to vaccinate against diabetes. It's only been relatively recently that I've dealt with a cat who developed diabetes. She was in her late teens, though, so, if they were vaccinating 20 years ago, you'd think she'd have been vaccinated as a kitten.

Regardless, cats I grew up with developed kidney disease. So was there a vaccine against it? Why didn't it work?
 
LOL Find me an 80 year old veterinarian and he will tell you about parasites in the pancreas. NO ORGAN ON ANY ANIMAL OR HUMAN IS IMMUNE TO PARASITES OR PATHOGENS.


I can find you any number of 80 year old vets. Try Carl Boyde, he's over 90. Or John Bleby. They will tell you, as I do, that there are no parasites that affect the pancreas of livestock in temperate climates.

Now wait a minute. You were claiming that it was possible to vaccinate against parasites, and it is certainly possible to vaccinate against bacterial and viral pathogens. Lots of animals (and people) are immune to all sorts of pathogens, either because of prior exposure, or because of vaccination.

Adult sheep and cattle even acquire immunity to intestinal worms, even though no vaccine has yet been developed to produce that artificially.

Don't go there it is too easy for people to cut up animals and look at a pancreas. You show me a cat who died of diabetes and I will show you fungus and or parasites in a pancreas.


Unlike you, sweetheat, I have done post mortems on lots of cats that died of diabetes. There are no parasites (or fungi) in the pancreas. Not on gross examination, and not on histopathology. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. I have actually looked, and I know.

What makes you think there are?

Make it legal for family to see what killed their loved ones and there will be no more disease either. If a person could get a look at the pancreas of their family member who just passed away because of diabetes everything will change and medicine will be done immediately.


You seriously think pathologists are doing post mortem examinations and just ignoring parasites in the pancreas? You're even more delusional than I thought.

Rolfe.
 
Last edited:
http://books.google.com/books?id=lY...g#v=onepage&q=sheep pancreatic flukes&f=false

That is one link to pancreatic flukes in goats. 20 years ago you could research on the internet many types of parasites known to colonize the pancreas.


Not the pancreas, the pancreatic ducts. Not the same thing at all. And did you notice the distribution of that organism? It's comfined to eastern Asia and Brazil. It doesn't occur in Britain, nor in the USA.

Twenty years ago. 1990. How much internet was there then? Bugger all, frankly. You couldn't "research" anything worth a damn.

They have either been removed or they are so far lost in all the gimmick parasite cleanses that they may never be seen again, lost knowledge. But it didn't take two minutes for me to confirm pancreatic parasites in goats. :)


Oh, you didn't know about that little beastie before? You were talking out of your backside all along?

Get over it, there was no veterinary research information available online in 1990. However, being a bit senior, as it were, I've still got a stack of veterinary textbooks from the 1970s. And some older ones. Guess how much information there is in them about pancreatic fluke? That's right, none.

The plain fact is cattle and sheep are vaccinated for the parasites in the link above and as such cattle and sheep are free of diabetes. If medicine was no so corrupt people would be vaccinated with the same vaccine.


That page is about goats, you know.

There are no vaccines available to protect against any parasites except for cattle lungworm. There are no vaccines available to protect against fluke. Would that there were, liver fluke is a very serious clinical problem around here, and getting worse as climate change makes our weather wetter.

I do post mortems on cattle and sheep with liver fluke every week. No flukes in the pancreas though.

Rolfe.
 
It is your fault for putting your picture up as your avatar. You are a woman with more muscle mass than he has, so clearly you must be dumb.

Yes, I am well aware of the stereotype.

Blonde with a good sense of humor doesn't help much either.

:)
 
No you missed the point. Medicine has avoided showing you the cause and the cure for diabetes for 100 years.

I have been trying to expose the conspiracy for fifteen years, you aren't going as easy as you might think but you can help.


Maybe you need to put the tinfoil hat back on.

What we need to do is take a cow and cut them off of all vaccines for their whole life and leave them to the same miserable existence as all cows but we will have to inject them with the pathogens that causes diabetes which might be tricky because like Rolfe medicine refuses to admit that diabetes is a disease caused by pathogens.


But there are lots and lots of cattle that are kept in systems without vaccination. Organic agriculture specifically discourages vaccination, but lots of non-organic farms don't vaccinate either, for various reasons.

And since you can't vaccinate against parasites at all (apart from cattle lungworm), then cattle get parasite infestations all the time. Including liver fluke. (Just not pancreatic fluke, because that doesn't exist.) They still don't get diabetes though.

Or we could take, say a cat that has been diagnosed with diabetes and open it up and see what is in the pancreas. That would be a lot easier. Poor kitty and this might really upset Pure who wants to be cured of cat allergies so she or he can pet their cat.


But people do post mortem examinations on cats all the time. Didn't I tell you I'm a pathologist? I spend a fair part of my working life going through the entrails of various domestic animals. Including cats. Including cats that had diabetes.

There are no parasites in the pancreas. Neither macroscopically or microscopically.

What makes you think there are?

Why don't we start with something even easier. Why don't you challenge my claims that you can cures diabetes? Or we can get the cow. Rolfe isn't going to dispute my claims any more. She knows about pancreatic flukes and she knows why cattle and sheep do not get diabetes she was just testing me.

But I welcome any help I can get if you want to give a cow diabetes lets get it going.


Be my guest. As I said, there are many farms that manage their cattle without the use of any vaccines. And there are no vaccines available against any sorts of fluke anyway. Or against gut worms.

There's no such thing as pancreatic fluke. That book you found was about goats, and mentioned a fluke in the pancreatic ducts, only in Brazil and east Asia. There are liver fluke, which are a nasty pathogen, and rumen fluke, which seem to be non-pathogenic. They are not found in the pancreas.

But cattle get parasitised all the time. Being as lots of cattle aren't vaccinated, and even if they were, there are no vaccines to protect against fluke or gut worms.

And cattle still don't get diabetes (or pretty much never, see below).

Rolfe.
 
That post was a train wreck, but I'll give it a shot.

I'm here to prove cures for diabetes and all diseases already exist through the human immune system we already have and currently disregard.


Well, who's stopping you? Carry on.

You know what? Type I diabetes is believed to be an autoimmune condition. That is, caused by a malfunction of the immune system.

Rolfe said there are no parasites or pathogens found in the pancreas and I have sufficiently proved her wrong. Matter of fact before hulda clark sheep pancreatic flukes was a hot topic among ranchers and vets.


Correct. There are no pancreatic fluke. Finding a reference to a fluke that inhabits the pancreatic ducts of goats in Brazil and east Asia has no bearing on this. You will not find a single vet, of any age, who agrees with you.

So you get the cow or find me 10 people who want to be cured of something and lets get on with it. The cow is going to be tricky because as I said we have to find the parasites to give one diabetes or is that something you can handle?


I thought you said cattle would get this parasite you won't name (and which doesn't exist) if they weren't vaccinated. I've told you that lots of cattle are not vaccinated. I've also told you there are no vaccines available to protect against fluke or gut worms. I've also told you that cattle and sheep get infected with fluke and gut worms all the time.

We have a lab dedicated to finding parasites in livestock. It's next to the post mortem room, and there's a little hatch in the wall so that we can pass specimens through to the technicians while we're working. We find liver fluke and gut worms all the time. (But no pancreatic parasites, not ever.)

Why don't these animals have diabetes then?

Rolfe.
 
ShareCures, here's a simple question I'd like you to answer: What is the mechanism by which carbohydrates and simple sugars interfere with your True Cure? (i.e. Do they interfere with the immune system itself, the communication from your mind to the receiver, or something else entirely?)
 
Dang, I am going to have to turn everything off. Smallpox is pathogen and be assured mice can get it. It may not cause the same signs and symptom in mice as humans and it may not cause any signs and symptoms but mice can get it.

Also they may only get it for a short spell because unlike modern man, mice still have an immune system.

Pathogens are pathogens. Sheep and cows are both subject to the exact same pathogens UNLESS they are effectively vaccinated against one or the other.


No, different pathogens affect different species.

There's a whole spectrum, from things like smallpox which only affect a single species (which is why it was eradicated, because there was no reservoir in any other species), to things like rabies that can hit practically anything mammalian.

This is evidenced by the very very different vaccination schedules published for different species. Vaccines are tailor-made to protect against the pathogens that affect each species. So children are vaccinated against measles and whooping cough and polio and diptheria and so on, and puppies against distemper (related to measles but different) and parvovirus and Rubarth's disease and so on, and kittens are vaccinated against panleucopenia and herpesvirus and calicivirus and leukaemia virus, and calves are vaccinated against BVD and IBR and Leptospira (and even lungworm!) and so on, and lambs are vaccinated against Pasteurella and Clostridia....

These are the things vets and farmers need to know. The information is not hard to find though. You should go look it up.

Indeed, different pathogens will produce different pathology in different species, where they affect multiple species. We spend a lot of time learning about this in college. But there are still lots of pathogens that only affect a very narrow range of species.

This is good, because it means I'm not much worried about catching diseases in the post mortem room. Most of the things the animals I deal with died of, I can't catch. Thankfully.

Because "disease" is just a name for signs and symptoms grouped together it in no way classifies a different variety of pathogens which means one virus in a cow might cause different signs and symptoms is say a sheep or mouse.


Indeed it might. Or then again, it might just not infect some of these species.

Also, diabetes is diabetes no matter if you are a cat, mouse or human in so much as there is a failure in the pancreas allowing issues with insulin production. Cows would have insulin production issues if they were not prevented from having the signs and symptoms associated with the disease known as diabetes.


Now that's where you're seriously wrong. Even in man, diabetes is divided into type I (juvenile onset) and type II (insulin resistance). Whereas type I is indeed characterised by a failure of insulin production, this is not the case for type II. Instead, patients with type II become resistant to the insulin they are producing. They can have extremely, astronomically high insulin concentrations, even though they have diabetes.

Cats and dogs mainly get type II. Though dogs in particular will experience a reduction in insulin production as the disease progresses. Horses are different again, where diabetes is part of the progression of equine Cushing's disease, caused by an age-related adenomatous change of the pars intermedia of the hypothalamus. Such horses usually have very high insulin concentrations.

I hate to seem cocky but if you learn how to cure diseases said to be incurable you to will be cocky.


You're delusional. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Rolfe.
 
Those days are gone. You can still get vaccines for dogs and cats over the counter but you can't get the one the keep your dog and cat disease free they way you could 10 or 20 years ago. Thanks for making a on topic point Hellbound.

I'm sure some of the readers here remember the day when cats and dogs did not get diabetes. I'm sure they remember but I'm also sure they will not admit to it. What I see in this forum is a whole lot of people who love to argue.


You certainly can't get vaccines for dogs and cats over the counter where I live. Your mileage may vary.

Sharecures, you seem to be very young. Ten years ago is a very short time. I've been vaccinating my 11-year-old cat with the same brand of vaccine since he was a kitten. It hasn't changed at all.

The advances in vaccination that have happened since i was a student have been in expanding the range of pathogens we can protect against. Forty years ago, dogs got vaccinated for distemper and Rubarth's disease, and cats for panleucopenia, and that was it. Now we can vaccinate against many more agents.

Dogs and cats have always got diabetes. We're better at treating them now, so they live longer, so you're more likely to meet one. There never was some magic vaccine that prevented the disease.

Rolfe.
 
Erm, no. Cows get diabetes, it is not as common as it is in sheep or pigs, but they get it.


I've never heard of diabetes in sheep, and I spend about 60% of my time on sheep medicine. Would you care to reference that? I'm not a pig specialist, but actually I don't believe it's something that troubles the scorer either.

There is a hypothesis that type I diabetes may have a infectious/viral origin, but it is not definitive.


That's still very speculative of course. It's not impossible there might be a vaccine for type I diabetes one day, but I don't expect it in my lifetime.

Of course, there is the possibility that all autoimmune disease is triggered by infection, by an organism antigenically close enough to the body's own tissues to trigger cross-reacting antibody production. Working on these lines, again it might eventually be possible to make vaccines smarter, to educate the immune system so that it doesn't do stuff like that, but again I don't expect this in my lifetime.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC385452/
Can Vet J. 2003 November; 44(11): 921–922. PMCID: PMC385452

© Copyright and/or publishing rights held by the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association

Diabetes mellitus in a 6-month-old Charolais heifer calf


Thanks for that. It did run in my mind that the occasional isolated case had been reported. I think that one was abstracted in the Vet Record. It's a curiosity though, suitable for one-off case reports, not a disease problem that concerns the livestock industry.

Rolfe.
 
Yes, I am well aware of the stereotype.

Blonde with a good sense of humor doesn't help much either.

:)



Maybe we're reading into it too much. Evidently, everyone who disagrees with him is dumb. Blonde, athletic, smart and humorous don't appear to be factors here, but... hey wait, aren't you that "perfect woman" I've been reading about?
 

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