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How much time do we really have?

Why did god use a messenger and not communicate directly with each of us what we should know and do?
And why did this "god" get so much basic science utterly wrong?

The same kind of person who would sleep with a 9 year old?
Hey the current Iraqi government wants to legalise it.

I'm just checking in after a longish absence from the thread and see this fallacy is still knocking around.
Why is mikeb still convinced this connection between Hemen-hotep and Haman is anything but at best, a mistake or at worst, a fraud?

  1. He needs to believe, specifically in his brand of Islam
  2. His faith is weak and needs a crutch
  3. Therefore he desperately clings to any distortion of reality that supposedly supports his version of Islam

In 1974 (about 30 years after the first computer) Arthur C. Clarke predicted that we would one day have online banking, and online shopping.
He wasn't the first. Ed Hoch predicted electronic voting and computer crime. Heinlein predicted cellular communication networks and their use to track people.
So what?
 
Tah.

I have to say I don't see the additional stuff after the main three-picture glyph; the flax, the upside-down comb thing and the water. The images imply it says HMN, but whence the hotep?

That is a good question. And I don't really know. The fourth symbol, that looks like a ski :D, is a biliteral and appears to be some kind of h. Says "ḥw" here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_biliteral_signs
No idea about the fifth.

And hotep is usually written differetly, yet the translation of the inscription renders the name as hemen-hotep. Maybe an abbreviation, or an unusual spelling?
 
<snip> Was Arthur Clarke known to have authored any books?
What an incredibly ignorant, and yet terribly revealing, question.
You have no idea who Clarke was, so you? Or about his contributions to science and engineering? You're just parroting some crap written by others without the slightest thought of your own, aren't you?
 
3) If you take the time to read the two stories it is quite easy to see they bear no resemblance.

In the passage in the Qur'an, pharaoh asks Haman to build a tower reaching to heaven so he can see Moses' god. You don't see the obvious resemblance of this motif to the Tower of Babel story in Genesis?

4) By choosing to deny things such as "first documented instance of the name Israel in the historical record" which is found on the Merneptah Stele you place your self at odds with what is known as recorded history. And I have no idea where this "the Exodus may have only been a band of slaves" theory comes from?

Okay, I'll go through this again, even though it's plainly a waste of time:

1) Events so momentous as those related in the Books of Exodus and Joshua should have had a massive enough effect to have been recorded in history, particularly since we have Egyptian papyri going back to 1500 BCE. Also, there should be archaeological evidence, such as the existence of the cities supposedly destroyed by Joshua's campaign in Canaan. We should also find evidence of their violent destruction.

2) Yet there is no recorded history from that time of either the plagues against Egypt, described in Exodus, or the wholesale destruction of the cities of Canaan, described in Joshua. Archaeologically, there's evidence that many of the great walled cities supposedly destroyed by Joshua either didn't exist, were small, unwalled towns or did exist but weren't destroyed.

What you tout as "recorded history" is the biblical text, written centuries after the alleged incidents. I'm not the one at odds with recorded history; you are.

As to the Merneptah Victory Stele, it mentions Israel as one people among several already living in Canaan. This is totally at odds with what is claimed in the Book of Joshua.

As to the theory that an exodus event might have been a much more minor event than what is found in Exodus and Joshua, that's about the only way to find anything remotely historical upon which the Exodus might have been based.

And after taking time to evaluate the work of both Weszinski and Ranke, the name "hmn-h" as the "overseer of stonemasons" is pretty clear. What some people seem to be doing is trying to do is to say that this is Hemen (falcon God), although none of the Egyptian Archeologist have suggested the mentioned door jamb to be associated with such. Also the approximate date for the Egyptian Falcon God is thought to be between 1069 - 30 BC or during the 25thd Dynasty of Egypt, so about 200 years after the writings found on the Door jamb belonging to Hmn-h (19th Dynasty). Taharqa and the Falcon God

Hope this helps to clear things up, but I'm pretty sure that the die hard skeptics will try and stick with Falcon God theory, despite the 200 year gap. I'm also glad the Museum in Vienna does not update the inscriptions based on anonymous, inaccurate, and poorly sourced blog postings.

[qimg]http://s12.postimg.org/dyjj7nw95/HMN_H.jpg[/qimg]
HMN found in the Quran = HMN found on ancient Egyptian artifact (Clearly explained the following two posts #1, #2)

Concerning the hilited area: Really? According to the Wikipedia site on Hemen, he was being worshipped during the 19th. dynasty and well before that time (from the site, bolding added to get your attention):

Hemen is mentioned in a limited number of inscriptions and texts. Some of these include:
Ankhtifi, a monarch dated to the first intermediate period, is shown inspecting a fleet, killing a hippopotamus in Hefat during festivities and offering the hippopotamus to Hemen.[7]
A round topped stela from the 13th dynasty invokes Ptah-Sokari-Osiris and Horus-Hemen lord of Asphynis. The stela was formerly in the V. Golenishchev collection, but is now in Moscow, in the State Pushkin Museum of Fine Arts.[8]
The chief sculptor Userhat who lived at the end of the 18th dyansty / beginning 19th dynasty mentions "causing cult statues to rest in their shrine". Hemen of Hefat is one of the gods listed among those Userhat was responsible for.[9]
Statue from the time of Amenhotep III; Now in Avignon, Musée Calvet.[10][11

ETA: if yoiu aren't convinced by the Wikipedia site, try this one. Here's what the site has to say about Hemen (bolding added):

HEMEN -
The falcon god of Mo'Allah, HEMEN was a very ancient divinity mentioned in the first texts of the pyramids. He was a mythological war god who fought against the forces of primordial chaos.

BTW, the Pyramid Texts date from the Old Kingdom (from the site):

The oldest of the texts have been dated to between ca. 2400-2300 BC.
 
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Hallo Mikeb768,

I've just been looking at your list of minor signs - you do realise that most of them are about as useful as the Prophecies in Peace Crusader's thread?

Most of them are too vague - or obvious.

Regards,
 
Gosh, Rincewind, I'd never connected the two.
I found a non.youtube link to those signs here
http://www.themeaningofislam.org/beliefs/day_of_judgement/minor_signs.html

Here's the list, spoilered for the length of it.

The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, and Ahmad)
Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low (Ahmad)
Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, and Al-Haythami)
When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, peace be upon him, said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)
Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open
The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari and Muslim)
Women will outnumber men......eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, and Ahmad)
Killing, killing, killing (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, and Ahmad)
The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims like hungry people going to sit down to a table full of food. This will occur when the Muslims are large in number, but "like the foam of the sea".
People will beat others with whips like the tails of oxen (Muslim) ?The Slave Trade
The children will be filled with rage (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Children will be foul (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
When a trust becomes a means of making a profit (at-Tirmidhi, Al-Haythami)
Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor (at-Tirmidhi)
Paying zakat becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread; charity is given reluctantly (at-Tirmidhi and Al-Haythami)
Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people (Bukhari)
Episodes of sudden death will become widespread (Ahmad)
There will be people who will be brethren in public but enemies in secret (He was asked how that would come about and replied, "Because they will have ulterior motives in their mutual dealings and at the same time will fear one another.") (at-Tirmidhi)
When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father (at-Tirmidhi)
When voices are raised in the mosques (at-Tirmidhi)
People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
The people of Iraq will recieve no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
People will hop between the clouds and the earth
A tribulation will enter everyone"s home (Ahmad)
The leader of a people will be the worst of them (at-Tirmidhi)
Leaders of people will be oppressors (Al-Haythami)
People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do (at-Tirmidhi)
Men will begin to wear silk (at-Tirmidhi)
Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)
When singers become common (Al-Haythami)
People will dance late into the night
When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones (at-Tirmidhi)
People will claim to follow the Qur'an but will reject hadith and sunnah (Abu Dawood)
People will believe in the stars (Al-Haythami)
People will reject al-Qadr (the Divine Decree of Destiny) (Al-Haythami)
Time will pass rapidly (Bukhari, Muslim, and Ahmad)
Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)
Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing
People will be carrying on with their trade, but their will only be a few trustworthy persons
Wealth will increase so much so that if a man were given 10,000, he would not be content with it (Ahmad and Bukhari)
A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place (Bukhari)
Earthquakes will increase (Bukhari and Muslim)
There will be attempts to make the deserts green
The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals) (Bukhari)
Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray and will lead others astray (Muslim)
The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims (Ahmad)
The conquest of India by the Muslims, just prior to the return of Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon both of them)(Ahmad, an-Nisa'i, at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings (Bukhari)
There will be a special greeting for the people of distinction (Ahmad)
The Euphrates will disclose a treasure (Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, peace be upon him, said that whoever is present should not take anything from it) (Bukhari and Muslim)
Two large groups, adhering to the same religious teaching will fight each other with large numbers of casualties (Bukhari and Muslim)
Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad)
A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad)
Years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed (Ahmad)
Bearing false witness will become widespread (Al-Haythami and Ahmad)
When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)
Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business (Ahmad)
A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world (Ahmad)
Arrogance will increase in the earth (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Family ties will be cut (Ahmad)
There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.
There will be an abundance of food, much of which has no blessing in it.
People will refuse when offerred food.
Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men


I can see your point.
This one in particular could be straight from the Philippines:
Years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed (Ahmad)
 
That is a good question. And I don't really know. The fourth symbol, that looks like a ski :D, is a biliteral and appears to be some kind of h. Says "ḥw" here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_biliteral_signs
No idea about the fifth.

And hotep is usually written differetly, yet the translation of the inscription renders the name as hemen-hotep. Maybe an abbreviation, or an unusual spelling?

I just don't know, and I don't know how to know either! Ignorance is my name.

Maybe Tim will clear it up for us.
 
tsig, it sounds like you should probably keep waiting for that voice in your head to appear. For everyone else I would recommend they look into the living miracle (aka The Final Miracle).

Although if God does in fact contact you directly just as your are requesting, do you promise to make a thread about this, so that myself and others can evaluate your claims?

Another coincidence?

Why shouldn't everyone wait for the voice from god to tell them the eternal truths, or the location of some obscure town, whichever comes first?
 
No idea.

Don't know enough Latin - or anything about the various Popes.

However, very few in the list have an explanation attached, so these are probably about as useful as the others....

ETA - Also I have to confess to insufficient interest.... :)

If you're not willing to spill blood over trifles then you don't have the stomach for real apologetics.:):D
 
In the passage in the Qur'an, pharaoh asks Haman to build a tower reaching to heaven so he can see Moses' god. You don't see the obvious resemblance of this motif to the Tower of Babel story in Genesis?



Okay, I'll go through this again, even though it's plainly a waste of time:

1) Events so momentous as those related in the Books of Exodus and Joshua should have had a massive enough effect to have been recorded in history, particularly since we have Egyptian papyri going back to 1500 BCE. Also, there should be archaeological evidence, such as the existence of the cities supposedly destroyed by Joshua's campaign in Canaan. We should also find evidence of their violent destruction.

2) Yet there is no recorded history from that time of either the plagues against Egypt, described in Exodus, or the wholesale destruction of the cities of Canaan, described in Joshua. Archaeologically, there's evidence that many of the great walled cities supposedly destroyed by Joshua either didn't exist, were small, unwalled towns or did exist but weren't destroyed.

What you tout as "recorded history" is the biblical text, written centuries after the alleged incidents. I'm not the one at odds with recorded history; you are.

As to the Merneptah Victory Stele, it mentions Israel as one people among several already living in Canaan. This is totally at odds with what is claimed in the Book of Joshua.

As to the theory that an exodus event might have been a much more minor event than what is found in Exodus and Joshua, that's about the only way to find anything remotely historical upon which the Exodus might have been based.



Concerning the hilited area: Really? According to the Wikipedia site on Hemen, he was being worshipped during the 19th. dynasty and well before that time (from the site, bolding added to get your attention):

Hemen is mentioned in a limited number of inscriptions and texts. Some of these include:
Ankhtifi, a monarch dated to the first intermediate period, is shown inspecting a fleet, killing a hippopotamus in Hefat during festivities and offering the hippopotamus to Hemen.[7]
A round topped stela from the 13th dynasty invokes Ptah-Sokari-Osiris and Horus-Hemen lord of Asphynis. The stela was formerly in the V. Golenishchev collection, but is now in Moscow, in the State Pushkin Museum of Fine Arts.[8]
The chief sculptor Userhat who lived at the end of the 18th dyansty / beginning 19th dynasty mentions "causing cult statues to rest in their shrine". Hemen of Hefat is one of the gods listed among those Userhat was responsible for.[9]
Statue from the time of Amenhotep III; Now in Avignon, Musée Calvet.[10][11

ETA: if yoiu aren't convinced by the Wikipedia site, try this one. Here's what the site has to say about Hemen (bolding added):

HEMEN -
The falcon god of Mo'Allah, HEMEN was a very ancient divinity mentioned in the first texts of the pyramids. He was a mythological war god who fought against the forces of primordial chaos.

BTW, the Pyramid Texts date from the Old Kingdom (from the site):

The oldest of the texts have been dated to between ca. 2400-2300 BC.

If you can convince the museum to update their inscription to say "Hemen (the Falcon god) was the overseer of stonemasons", despite how utterly ridiculous it sounds, maybe then I will start to give your assertion further thought.

In the mean time maybe you can provide us with a separate set of hieroglyphs which archeologists believe to depict Hemen the falcon God in order to support your assertion. For the record Weszinski never wrote Hemen, he actually wrote "hmn-h". And I will continue to disagree with you, while you attempt to conflate the stories of Moses and the Book of Esther, based on the fact that 998 details differ but 2 are the same.

Until then the most credible source on this subject seems to be following posts:


HMN found in the Quran = HMN found on ancient Egyptian artifact (Clearly explained the following two posts #1, #2)
 
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If you can convince the museum to update their inscription to say "Hemen (the Falcon god) was the overseer of stonemasons", despite how utterly ridiculous it sounds, maybe then I will start to give your assertion further thought.

In the mean time maybe you can provide us with a separate set of hieroglyphs which archeologists believe to depict Hemen the falcon God in order to support your assertion. For the record Weszinski never wrote Hemen, he actually wrote "hmn-h". And I will continue to disagree with your attempt to conflate the stories of Moses and the Book of Esther, based on the fact that 1000 details differ but 2 are the same.

Until then the most credible source on this subject seems to be following posts:

Why do you keep lying about this?

Everyone says the inscription is "Hemen-Hotep" which is a name for a man, but it isn't "Haman". This has been explained many times.

The rest of your claims are just too silly to believe you can be serious.

You apparently think that because a 7th century megalomaniac tricked his followers into believing he had divine guidance, that we should also fall for the same pack of lies. Why?

Why do you expect the same level of ignorance from educated people in the 21st century that Muhammad found in 7th century Arabs?
 
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