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How far will the excuses to shoot go?

Nessie said:
Police officers who cannot handle a fight with a drugged or crazed man should not be police officers. Police who cannot protect their guns in a potential fight/arrest should not have guns.

The police should be prepared for and accept that their job can get physical and if they want to avoid that by using a gun as their only means of dealing with someone, they should not be in the police.

Do you favour escalation of threat or are you advocating going deadly straight away, no matter what, even to avoid a minor scuffle and maybe a slap?

Do the police only have guns? Do they not also have cuffs and batons?

Tazer, mace, what about calmness, patience, verbal skills or even in the case of a naked man a boot in the bollocks first?
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Seconded and thirded as an ex Law enforement Officer I tell you I would not have wanted this bozo on my team, liable to get us and perps killed
 
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Nessie said:
I think anyone who fears a naked man who may have been high on drugs should not be in the police. He got too scared too easily.
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Another fine argument based I assume on much experience with those high on an unidentified drug, that addled person's strength, etc.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
Naked men still have their muscles, do you really think all strangulations must be garrotes? That protective gear must be employed to beat someone to death? To break bones?

Drugs remove the limiting factors on human potential, allowing us to continue through pain to the physical limits of muscle and sinew, use all of our muscle cells' contracting abilities at once. This cop was in rightful fear of his life, and lacked a non-lethal means to defend himself.

I may have trained to fourth qyu in Aikido, but I would not want to tangle with a drugged-out wrestler---naked or not. I'd shoot him dead before I'd let him try, my bodily integrity is worth more to me than someone else's life. How much injury should I allow to myself, in order to protect an attacker? Broken bones, perforated lungs, subdural hematoma?
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So by that reasoning if you ever scare me, I can kill you and it is justified and your fault.

I am up to taking a few knocks if it means the other guy does not have to die. I do not fear others like you do.

Is it right to take a gun to a nude wrestling match?
 
Nessie said:
OK so the consensus amongst Americans is that naked guys on drugs are a deadly threat, along with Japanese people dressed as John Travolta and a Scotsman who stupidly went to back door and knocked on it.

So what constitutes a non deadly threat in the USA?
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Petulance in argument.
 
Resume said:
Another fine argument based I assume on much experience with those high on an unidentified drug, that addled person's strength, etc.
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Yes, I have 23 years of experience dealing with junkies, drunks and people with mental health issues or a combination of all three. No gun, never used CS, drawn a baton once but did not strike. Instead cuffs, open handed fend offs, arm locks and most of all patience and verbal skills. I have had various knocks, cuts and once to A&E with minor concussion. No one has died.

What experience do you have?
 
Nessie said:
OK so the consensus amongst Americans is that naked guys on drugs are a deadly threat, along with Japanese people dressed as John Travolta and a Scotsman who stupidly went to back door and knocked on it.

So what constitutes a non deadly threat in the USA?
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I'll ignore your little jab and take you seriously.

Keep in mind that each state can have slightly different laws about this.

In many states, you can use deadly force to respond to a threat of GBH, great bodily harm. You don't have to fear for your life, just GBH.

If you are being beaten up with fists, you can shoot/stab your attacker. You need not respond "in kind". You need only have a reasonable fear of GBH.

You are not required to wait until your attacker makes progress on you, either. You need only reasonably fear that GBH was about to happen to you.

To analyze any particular incident, you would need to look at the laws of the state where it occurred.

What you get away with clean in Florida, you might go to jail for in New York, for example.

Police officers generally get a wide latitude when they shoot someone. In this case, with what I have already heard, I think it's very unlikely that a jury would vote to convict the officer anyway.
 
Nessie said:
Yes, I have 23 years of experience dealing with junkies, drunks and people with mental health issues or a combination of all three. No gun, never used CS, drawn a baton once but did not strike. Instead cuffs, open handed fend offs, arm locks and most of all patience and verbal skills. I have had various knocks, cuts and once to A&E with minor concussion. No one has died.

What experience do you have?
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That you value your own life so little doesn't mean others don't value theirs.
 
Nessie said:
Yes, I have 23 years of experience dealing with junkies, drunks and people with mental health issues or a combination of all three. No gun, never used CS, drawn a baton once but did not strike. Instead cuffs, open handed fend offs, arm locks and most of all patience and verbal skills. I have had various knocks, cuts and once to A&E with minor concussion. No one has died.

What experience do you have?
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Not as much as you.

I'm wondering why you find it neccessary to call the officer a coward though. Is that based on experience as well?
 
From the OP news article:
5-foot-7 and weighed 135 pounds
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That paints a completely different picture from the one the officer used:
According to the university statement, the officer “was confronted by a muscular, nude man who was acting erratically.
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You get the picture of someone a lot bigger than 135 pound 5'7" kid.

I think it is completely justified to ask:
his mother and friends are asking why no other means were used to subdue the 18-year-old.
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It's really sad. Kids get drunk. They do stupid things. Sometimes they die. But they shouldn't die because campus police are incompetent, and IMO, the shooter was incompetent.
 
LTC8K6 said:
A thigh/pelvis shot is very likely to be fatal, actually.
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"Likely"? I don't think so. Can be fatal, sure.

LTC8K6 said:
If a cop in the US shoots a perp in the arm or leg, it's because he missed.
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It's a bit of a dilemma. Supposedly cops are not supposed to shoot unless they determine deadly force is called for, thus the chest shot policy. But that's also why 'non-lethal' force options are used more and more.

Where was the taser?
 
LTC8K6 said:
The officer's choice was hand to hand combat with the guy or shoot the guy.
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Meaning the kid was point blank close and I'm sorry, but I see no reason a calm, in control officer sizing up the situation couldn't have used non-lethal force, including an upper leg shot.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
"Likely"? I don't think so. Can be fatal, sure.

It's a bit of a dilemma. Supposedly cops are not supposed to shoot unless they determine deadly force is called for, thus the chest shot policy. But that's also why 'non-lethal' force options are used more and more.

Where was the taser?
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I'll stick with likely, thanks.

The officer had no taser, no baton, and no pepper spray according to the sheriff.

I can just hear the stories now.

"Cruel officer intentionally cripples unarmed student..."
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Meaning the kid was point blank close and I'm sorry, but I see no reason a calm, in control officer sizing up the situation couldn't have used non-lethal force, including an upper leg shot.
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That's nothing but fantasy, imo.

"Unbelievable cruelty as officer intentionally shoots unarmed wrestler in the knee, ending his wrestling career..."
 
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According to Mobile County Sheriff Sam Cochran, witnesses have submitted sworn statements that say they and Gil Collar, 18, were at the BayFest Music Festival Friday night where they ingested the hallucinogenic LSD. Collar became erratic, disrobed, assaulted people in two vehicles, then banged on the window of the USA Police Department.

USA police officer Trevis Austin, 27, came out of the station with his gun drawn, a move which Cochran said made sense in the situation. Surveillance footage showed Collar repeatedly lunging at the ground and the officer while alternating through fighting stances as Austin attempted to retreat, according to Cochran.
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http://blog.al.com/montgomery/2012/10/gil_collar_freshman_shot_dead.html
 
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