How far have we come with homosexuality?

[bikerdruid]

So... How do you know that someone is born in that way?

in my case, personal experience.
were you born straight?

 

[AvalonXQ]

I don't believe people are born with a sexual identity, just as I don't believe people are born with an ideological outlook.
It develops through interaction with your environment during your formative years.

 

[I Am The Scum]

The false dichotomy of, "It's either a choice, or something you're born with," really needs to go away.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I don't believe people are born with a sexual identity, just as I don't believe people are born with an ideological outlook.
It develops through interaction with your environment during your formative years.

I still don't agree this is always true, because I just don't see how someone who was raised with a complete absense of exposure to homosexual activity, whose only cultural input of homosexuality is that it is wrong, and who has always made a point of pursuing only heterosexual activity their entire lives...could still remain gay.

Again, I agree what you say is true for SOME people, maybe even most. What percentage of people that entails, I won't hazard a guess. But I do still think there are some people who just are the way they are, for the reason I state above.

So probably on that one point we'll just agree to disagree, and thanks for clarifying your position for me, Avalon. Even if I don't totally agree with it, at least I know where you're coming from now.

 

[I Am The Scum]

I still don't agree this is always true, because I just don't see how someone who was raised with a complete absense of exposure to homosexual activity, whose only cultural input of homosexuality is that it is wrong, and who has always made a point of pursuing only heterosexual activity their entire lives...could still remain gay.

You don't necessarily have to consider it a matter of gay vs. straight. Rather, think of it as an inclination towards preferring men, women, or both.

For example, let's imagine a girl who is born and raised with no exposure to any men whatsoever, not even in artistic or literary depictions. It is only natural that this individual feels no interest towards men. How could she? It is only once she is exposed to a thing (in this case, men), that she can come to a realization on whether or not she likes them.

So even if one is raised being indoctrinated that homosexuality is wrong, this changes nothing. The interest for homosexuals is not in the homosexuality itself (because it's not an object), rather, it's a preference towards one gender over another. One raised under such indoctrination still has an exposure to both genders.

 

[SnakeTongue]

i am queer. i never chose to be queer.
did you choose to be straight? (i am assuming that you are straight.)

Your definition of "queer":

it is exactly like that.
we call ourselves 'queer' because we have taken back the word.
it is our word.
it can no longer be used against us.
i often refer to myself as 'fag' or 'faggot' for the same reason.

If this word cannot be used against you, I interpret the meaning as:

(...) and by others as a re-appropriated term used to describe a sexual orientation and/or gender identity or gender expression that does not conform to heteronormative society.

http://www.algbtical.org/2A QUEER.htm

You assert "queer" as opposite of "straight". So I can conclude that "queer" mean homosexuality and "straight" mean heterosexuality. You also cite "faggot":

"male homosexual," 1914, Amer.Eng. slang (shortened form fag is from 1921), probably from earlier contemptuous term for "woman" (1590s), especially an old and unpleasant one, in reference to faggot (1) "bundle of sticks," as something awkward that has to be carried (cf. baggage). It may also be reinforced by Yiddish faygele "homosexual," lit. "little bird." It also may have roots in British public school slang fag "a junior who does certain duties for a senior" (1785), with suggestions of "catamite," from fag (v.).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=faggot

This mean your comment was:

I am a biological male which sexual sexual orientation is directed to another male. I never choose to be a male which enjoy "passive" sexual intercourse with another "assertive" male. Did you choose to be a biological male which sexual orientation is only directed to females or/and males if engaging in "assertive" intercourse?

Is that correct? I would be glad to answer if we can define what are we speaking about.

 

[zooterkin]

Your definition of "queer":



If this word cannot be used against you, I interpret the meaning as:



You assert "queer" as opposite of "straight". So I can conclude that "queer" mean homosexuality and "straight" mean heterosexuality. You also cite "faggot":



This mean your comment was:

I am a biological male which sexual sexual orientation is directed to another male. I never choose to be a male which enjoy "passive" sexual (oral and anal) intercourse with another "assertive" male. Did you choose to be a biological male which sexual orientation is only directed to females or males if engaging in "assertive" (oral, vaginal and anal) intercourse?

Don't give up the English classes.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Don't give up the English classes.

So... How do you know that someone is born in that way and is not a choice influenced by the social environment?

 

[zooterkin]

So... How do you know that someone is born in that way and is not a choice influenced by the social environment?

Better, but you've missed a word out, and got an extra one in there. Remove the "in" and put "it" between "and" and "is".

 

[SnakeTongue]

Better, but you've missed a word out, and got an extra one in there. Remove the "in" and put "it" between "and" and "is".

So... How do you know that someone is born in that way and is not a choice influenced by the social environment?

 

[zooterkin]

<sigh> I hope you do your other homework better. Let me mark it up for you:

So... How do you know that someone is born in that way and it is not a choice influenced by the social environment?

 

[bikerdruid]

Your definition of "queer":



If this word cannot be used against you, I interpret the meaning as:



You assert "queer" as opposite of "straight". So I can conclude that "queer" mean homosexuality and "straight" mean heterosexuality. You also cite "faggot":



This mean your comment was:

I am a biological male which sexual sexual orientation is directed to another male. I never choose to be a male which enjoy "passive" sexual intercourse with another "assertive" male. Did you choose to be a biological male which sexual orientation is only directed to females or/and males if engaging in "assertive" intercourse?

Is that correct? I would be glad to answer if we can define what are we speaking about.

very coy.....
if you really do not understand my terminology, the roots of your difficulty understanding the language are more of a problem than your inane insistence on adhering to arcane interpretations of the underlying causes of homosexuality.
since this is not the place for remedial language instruction, you have a real problem.

let me try at a more simple level:
i am a homosexual male. i was born this way. i never chose this path.
i prefer to call myself 'queer', since it is a politically charged word.

perhaps it would be a worthwhile exercise for you to tell us when you chose to be heterosexual.

btw...your assumptions that i am passive, or that i engage in anal sex, are in error.

 

[I Am The Scum]

So... How do you know that someone is born in that way and is not a choice influenced by the social environment?

Why do you repeatedly insist if homosexuality is not a choice, then it must be something someone is born with?

 

[SnakeTongue]

very coy.....
if you really do not understand my terminology, the roots of your difficulty understanding the language are more of a problem than your inane insistence on adhering to arcane interpretations of the underlying causes of homosexuality.
since this is not the place for remedial language instruction, you have a real problem.

let me try at a more simple level:
i am a homosexual male. i was born this way. i never chose this path.
i prefer to call myself 'queer', since it is a politically charged word.

perhaps it would be a worthwhile exercise for you to tell us when you chose to be heterosexual.

btw...your assumptions that i am passive, or that i engage in anal sex, are in error.

I am trying to understand what are your definitions for such complex terms, since English is not my mother language.

So...

How do you define homosexuality and heterosexuality?

 

[SnakeTongue]

"How far have we come with homosexuality" and religion:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191670

 

[bikerdruid]

"How far have we come with homosexuality" and religion:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191670

do you agree with that o.p.?