How far have we come with homosexuality?

Yeah, "society" can't be generalized like I made it sound it could in my OP.

What a cool high school experience! At my high school, gays and bis were definitely mocked and ostracized.

**

Is the argument against homosexuality really any more complicated than: (1) it's unnatural, (2) it's immoral?

The first bad objection has been met by biological evidences, but how is the second answered by you? Obviously (2) often comes with references to such and such God said this about it, but how do you respond to (2) in the positive sense? (That is, if you had to make an argument that heterosexuality and homosexuality were equally moral, how would you do it?)
 
Schrodinger's Cat said:
It's so strange to me that within the same country - sometimes even the same state! - you can have two gay people born in two different places and they have completely different life experiences. Go to my high school, and being gay, if anything, got you extra social points. But then you have that girl in Mississippi who was barred from her own prom and ostracized by her whole town for being gay. It's really sad how where you live can just change your whole life.
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One could make a credible claim that Massachusetts and Mississippi are not in fact the same country. :)
 
Mark6 said:
One could make a credible claim that Massachusetts and Mississippi are not in fact the same country. :)
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In very much the same way one could claim that Tenochtitlan and Toronto aren't on the same continent.
 
I'm encouraged. Change is hard, change is never fast enough, but change is inevitable.

It seems that many young kids today are growing up with more diversity, and less fear of the other or the different.

Unless you're a member of the Phelps family.
 
Fnord said:
Meanwhile, those on the front lines of the civil rights movement were both risking and losing their friendships, thier jobs, their families and even their lives.

Seems to me that the "gay community" (in all of its various forms) has rightfully earned their current lack of support.
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What about gay people who weren't alive in the 60's? Do they not deserve your support?

You basically are telling every homosexual under the age of 65 that they have to pay for the supposed failures of those who came before. Why?
 
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I wonder where the "gay community" was when the civil rights movement was being led by the likes of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and company. I also wonder where the "gay community" gets off trying to gain support from the "black community" after not having been visibly supportive of the civil rights movement in the 1960s.
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KingMerv00 said:
What about gay people who weren't alive in the 60's? Do they not deserve your support?

You basically are telling every homosexual under the age of 65 that they have to pay for the supposed failures of those who came before. Why?
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Not only that, but do you really think gays supporting civil rights for blacks would have helped their movement? I think it would have been a case of guilt by association, considering how reviled homosexuals were at that time.
 
Schrodinger's Cat said:
Not only that, but do you really think gays supporting civil rights for blacks would have helped their movement? I think it would have been a case of guilt by association, considering how reviled homosexuals were at that time.
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I was thinking along those lines as well. Thank you for voicing it first and making it easier for me to 'come out' on your side.
 
Thunder said:
just out of curiosity, why would you call yourself "Queer"?

is it not an offensive term?

does it not mean "strange", "awkward", "unusual"?

to me, its almost like when some blacks call each other the "N" word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer#Traditional_usage
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it is exactly like that.
we call ourselves 'queer' because we have taken back the word.
it is our word.
it can no longer be used against us.
i often refer to myself as 'fag' or 'faggot' for the same reason.
 
Dr. Keith said:
This. And I am guilty.

I drive a Passat, don't have a wedding ring, shave my head, have a pretty natural tan and try to dress well without looking conservative. (Imagine a well dressed Andrew Zimmern.*)

But I drew the line at putting the Apple sticker on the car. Sure, I have just about every Apple product one would need, but I just didn't need the added attention.


*Yes, I know Andrew is not gay, but I look more like him than Mo Rocca.
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I'm straight and I too have tastes that would be considered "gay" to some people, like having budgerigars for pets, but I don't care, it's their prejudice, I know who I am. One shouldn't avoid certain things because they appear "gay". It's ridiculous.
 
bikerdruid said:
it is exactly like that.
we call ourselves 'queer' because we have taken back the word.
it is our word.
it can no longer be used against us.
i often refer to myself as 'fag' or 'faggot' for the same reason.
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are you one of those who call everybody 'girlfriend' too?

*FYI, I agree with you on 'queer' and 'queen' and do the same myself, but just cannot bring myself to use 'fag' or 'faggot' in that way, and i am sorry, but calling other gay men 'girlfriend' is just way to flamboyant for me.
 
cwalner said:
are you one of those who call everybody 'girlfriend' too?

*FYI, I agree with you on 'queer' and 'queen' and do the same myself, but just cannot bring myself to use 'fag' or 'faggot' in that way, and i am sorry, but calling other gay men 'girlfriend' is just way to flamboyant for me.
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not at all.....i don't refer to men as 'girl'anything'.
men are men....only girls are girls.
those gays that do are more caricature than real.
only a very small minority of us are 'flamboyant', as you say.
 
bikerdruid said:
we call ourselves 'queer' because we have taken back the word.
it can no longer be used against us.
i often refer to myself as 'fag' or 'faggot' for the same reason.
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hmmmm......:cool:

so, in other words, if a heterosexual called you a "fag" or a "faggot" on the street, you would NOT be offended?

cause honestly, if you would be offended, than you have NOT taken back any words.

just like how most black people would be VERY offended if a white or Asian or non-black Hispanic person called them the "N" word.


...if folks at JREF started referring to you as "Mr. Faggot", we would get a yellow card right quick, and I bet you would report such an attack. be honest now.
 
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Pardalis said:
I guess it's like with black people, when some of them call themselves the N word.
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It is. And similarly, some in the gay community, like bikerdruid, are ok with it coming from other gays, and others, like myself are not.
 
Pardalis said:
One shouldn't avoid certain things because they appear "gay". It's ridiculous.
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Agreed. It was a bit of a joke. I don't have any bumper stickers at all and I didn't really leave it off so as not to offend.

And to the miata owner: I love those things! Not a hairdressers car at all, unless you doll it up in hello kitty decals. Unless they are some ironic hipster thing like the pirate hello kitty decal I saw yesterday.
 
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