How do pagans celebrate Christmas?

thaiboxerken said:
Some people just don't like you, I would wager many on the board don't. That's why. The only reason you fear no man is because you aren't in a bad situation right now. Oh, and freedom of speech is not a christian value, why do you cherish it?
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Yah you are right. No one can try to kill or beat me from my computer chair. But I have had some comfrontations with other people I consider not very nice! Seems to me that people only listen if it's what they want to hear?
 
kurious_kathy said:
Seems to me that people only listen if it's what they want to hear?
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Perhaps if they are fundamentalists, like you. Most in this board will actually try to have a decent discussion with points and counterpoints. You, however, only continue to preach at us and try to convert people. If we wanted sermons, we'd go to church.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Now why would you want that? Seems somewhat rediculous to me! But it just reminds me that after the second coming of Jesus when the church is raptured...how easy it will be for people to follow the anti-christ. The one thing that really concerns me is when the Holy Spirit goes with us? It's gona get worse on this planet. All are like sheep being led to the slaughter! I have to say something here to you...If you are not choosing God, you are automatically serving the other guy!
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Why?

Let me answer by asking you a question.

I assume that you are not a Tibetan Buddhist. Your comments make me feel confident that this is a true statement. Would you like it if the US Government were to start taking direction from the Dalai Lama? Probably not. Again, you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok, You would not like a non-Christian religion shoved in your face.

Our First Admendent protects that right of ours. I don't want it on the money because it is not an accurate statement. One that should not be put forth by a government that is supposed to remove itself from the religion of it's People (that's us...you AND me, Kathy).

I really don't give one whit what you believe. Really. Go for it. I don't care. I just want the same respect from you and the other 280 million people living here. More importantly, I require it from my government. As should you.

Thomas Paine said:
“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law”
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Thomas Jefferson said:
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.
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Quite clear what our Founding Fathers intended in the First Admendment.

Now. Let's tackle this part.
Seems somewhat rediculous to me! But it just reminds me that after the second coming of Jesus when the church is raptured...how easy it will be for people to follow the anti-christ. The one thing that really concerns me is when the Holy Spirit goes with us? It's gona get worse on this planet. All are like sheep being led to the slaughter! I have to say something here to you...If you are not choosing God, you are automatically serving the other guy!
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first, there would have to be proof that a divine actually existed. This point has been endlessly debated here and other places throughout the ages. I'm afraid that you and I will have to agree to disagree. And please, don't retort with Pascal's Wager, or one of it's variants, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I just have a hard time believing that a "loving God" would send me to hell for not accepting the way out from the trap that he set to begin with. That's called psychosis.

Oh, and I've already served the other guy, just like I've served your guy. But hey, there's a goodly number of your ilk that believes "Once Saved, Always Saved", so I'm all good." ;) Before you respond to that...what if you're wrong?

Ok, it's almmost 2 AM, and I have to go to work tomorrow, so...g'night
 
kurious_kathy said:
And what were you taught in your youth? Were you raise Catholic by chance?
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Why yes, yes I was...

Why? Do you have a problem with a loving, understanding God who judges us by the way we treat our fellow man?

Please, tell me how my parish's priests and youth ministers may have wronged me.
 
I was taught that respect, praise, etc has to be earned - and earned continually.

Why should we make exceptions?

I see nothing to indicate that Gunderscored has been concerned enough to be bothered.

Why should I then be bothered with Him?

YBW
 
kurious_kathy said:
You are wrong! God is the only one worthy of praise!
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That doesn't answer the question Kathy.

The only reason you worship your god is because of WHAT it is, not WHO it is.

That is to say that your god may be Hitler-like but because it is a god and not a man you're happy to worship it.

What makes it worthy? It saying so?

You might attempt actually telling us to persuade us - otherwise you might try shutting the hell up and telling it to people who give a crap.
 
kurious_kathy said:
But it just reminds me that after the second coming of Jesus when the church is raptured...how easy it will be for people to follow the anti-christ.
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I wonder if you could point out for us where in the bible the alleged rapture is mentioned. And when you are praying, could you mention to your imaginary friend that he's a little late with that second coming thing? He promised to be back before those listening to him passed, and it's been almost 2000 years. I wonder where all of those 2000 year old people are?????
 
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kurious_kathy said:
.... after the second coming of Jesus when the church is raptured...
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Have you secured your seat at the balcony so you'll have a full view of the "pagans" suffering in the flames, as so many of the caring, loving believer in that bogeyman tale that is apocalypse look forward to ? :rolleyes:
 
[nitpick]It's been only 1972 years, by the fundie count.[/nitpick]

[checks watch]
Any minute now, I'm sure.

[checks watch again]
Is this thing running?
 
kurious_kathy said:
No Fowlsound I said I would try to get back to you but feel if you really wanted to know that answer you could find it a lot faster yourself. There are many Christians in American History that influenced our government.
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And a lot of non-Christians, too.

But that wasn't your original claim. Your original claim is that the US was built on Biblical principles. So far, you have completely failed to provide:

  • A single Biblical principle the country was founded on
  • A single Biblical principle in the Constitution
  • A single Constitutional concept found in the Bible.
So either put up or shut up.

The problem is much of the history has been edited to the point you might have trouble finding those statements that refer to things like "In God We Trust."
Problem now is people want to even take this statement off our US Money!! Guess what if you hurry I'm sure you can find that written on our currency. Better hurry while there is still evidence for that.
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Yeah, because it might be taken off before you can get your hand to your wallet. :rolleyes:

I think it's terribly wrong. And I also feel people who don't believe in God are setting themselves up for eternal damnation!
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And nobody here really cares what you feel, unless you provide some decent reasoning behind it. Have you not figured this out yet?
 
I don't do any of the Christmas trappings myself, because I live in a fairly small place jammed to the gills already. A Christmas tree would have to be about six inches tall, cat-proof, and self-watering.

My parents go all out, though, since they still have a small child in the house, so I go up there for all the traditions--stockings, presents, tree, ornaments, pie, mad unwrappings, etc. In the interests of their paganism, however, they top the tree with a rubber chicken instead of an angel.

I know we abandoned Christmas discussion a few pages back, but the chicken gets me every time.
 
kurious_kathy said:
In the beginning God created...
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Say for instance that is correct. But how did God do it? When God spoke existence into existence, what natural forces were used and how were they used? We do understand forces of nature now and that is because of scientific experiment. If we still just relied on "God said," I reckon we would still be hanging folks for having critical minds. For your own information, I can't say that there is no God. To do that would require me to prove it and I can't. So when you say there is a God, please be kind and show me the evidence. You might raise someone from the dead. That would surely give you the edge your looking for. You'd get my attention for sure!
 
UrsulaV said:
I don't do any of the Christmas trappings myself, because I live in a fairly small place jammed to the gills already. A Christmas tree would have to be about six inches tall, cat-proof, and self-watering.

My parents go all out, though, since they still have a small child in the house, so I go up there for all the traditions--stockings, presents, tree, ornaments, pie, mad unwrappings, etc. In the interests of their paganism, however, they top the tree with a rubber chicken instead of an angel.

I know we abandoned Christmas discussion a few pages back, but the chicken gets me every time.
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This made me laugh so hard..... To heck with the sickly sweet angel, the disco ball star, even the father christmas. Next year, its a rubber chicken.
 
Kathy, since you're an ex-Catholic, you may be interested to read this Catholic explanation of the origins of the Rapture belief: http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
Premillennialists hold, as do virtually all Christians (except certain postmillennialists), that the Second Coming will be preceded by a time of great trouble and persecution of God’s people (2 Thess. 2:1–4). This period is often called the tribulation. Until the nineteenth century, all Christians agreed that the rapture—though it was not called that at the time—would occur immediately before the Second Coming, at the close of the period of persecution. This position is today called the "post-tribulational" view because it says the rapture will come after the tribulation.
But in the 1800s, some began to claim that the rapture would occur before the period of persecution. This position, now known as the "pre-tribulational" view, also was embraced by John Nelson Darby, an early leader of a Fundamentalist movement that became known as Dispensationalism. Darby’s pre-tribulational view of the rapture was then picked up by a man named C.I. Scofield, who taught the view in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible, which was widely distributed in England and America. Many Protestants who read the Scofield Reference Bible uncritically accepted what its footnotes said and adopted the pre-tribulational view, even though no Christian had heard of it in the previous 1800 years of Church history.
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