How Can they Stop the Oil Spill?

[TraneWreck]

Not a problem. What was the method they suggested would take months?

Drilling down deeper to redirect or shut down the flow. That was plan B if the robots couldn't shut it off, and it looks like they failed.

 

[Clownshoes]

Not a problem. What was the method they suggested would take months?

To drill a second well into the zone and pump a "kill fluid" into it to stop all flow. Basically a super dense fluid even concrete in some cases if they only want to stop the leak and dont care about formation damage.

 

[MattusMaximus]

It amazes me when people think that an oil spill is such a huge disaster.

Yeah, and monster hurricanes (like Katrina) are no big deal either

 

[MattusMaximus]

I wonder if a small nuclear device detonated near the bore would collapse the bore?

Not that anybody is likely to authorize such a thing, but I believe that there is a chance that it might just work.

Ben, you are sooooo hardcore

 

[MattusMaximus]

I think the radiation might have quite an adverse affect.

On who, or what? At the depths they're talking about, I think that most of the radiation would be stopped by almost a mile of seawater. It certainly wouldn't be good for most of the local wildlife, but then they've already got to deal with oil-soaked water and the potential blast wave from the nuke.

 

[MattusMaximus]

This is a fascinating thread, but I think some visuals are in order to allow this all to make more sense to me. Does anyone have a link to some good graphics on this?

 

[Clownshoes]

This is a fascinating thread, but I think some visuals are in order to allow this all to make more sense to me. Does anyone have a link to some good graphics on this?

Basically think of it like this.

First there is a hole in the ground right. Just an ordinary hole in the rock.

Then they put casing in which is used to seal off aquifers and other zones and is just some large diameter steel tubing. They suspend this casing then pump concrete on the outside of it between the steel and rock to hold it in place and seal off the other zones.

Now they perforate or shoot holes into or through the steel pipe and concrete in order to get the oil from a single zone or target area.

Then they install a production tubing.



This image is on land. Instead of the well head in the case of the BP rig imagine 5000ft of pipe which was attached to the rig now acting like a garden hose with the water pressure turned on and holes in it leaking all over. Thats basically whats going on as I understand it minus the production string.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Warmer1]

The blow out preventers are built with huge rams inside that are pushed together sideways hydraulically, and they have solid rubber fittings on the ends designed to either seal around a round drill pipe, or close flat together to seal a hole with no pipe in it. The blow out preventers wiegh tons ( 18 tons on my rig) are are mounted on the top of the large round steel casing that is cemented in the top of the hole. I worked helping drill 18,000 ft holes on land and the top casing was 36" round. More casing was cemented into the hole in smaller diameters every thousand (?) feet or so to hold back the pressures that we were tapping into underground. The extremely powerful hydraulic pumps that pressurise the blow out preventer's rams are gone as the rig is ruined. The blow out preventers also work best when the pipe that they close around is straight and verticle. I'm just guessing that the fact the the pipe and casing was bent over sideways when the rig sank, that there is a lot of pressure sideways on the bent pipe and the chances of the automatic blow out preventers rams sealing around that pipe is not good.

It's probably a lot faster to drill another hole to try and seal the well than to try and cut the casing, move the huge BOP's, and then try and attach a wellhead to the casing, all working at a mile deep.

Trying to crush the casing flat with a huge explosion would be a crap shoot IMHO as there is a small open (5"?) pipe inside a 36" piece of steel casing that is cemented into the hole with smaller casing cemented into it as well. There is probably enough pressure at that depth to keep the oil flowing through any hole and if the top of the formation was fractured by the blast then the oil would just seep up through the new cracks in the rock. I worked on one rig where things started ouzing up out of the ground around our rig camp which was about a mile from the well. We cemented in more casing quickly to stop the fluids creeping up throough the rock.
At least if the top of the hole is left intact then there is something to work with if drilling other holes don't work. The real problem is trying to work a mile deep with ROV's is like trying to grab the stuffed toy in the arcade box with the smooth three pronged grappling device.

I'm also assuming that when a relief hole is drilled that casing will have to be cemented into the rock and a well head installed on the seafloor so drilling mud and cement can be pressured into the hole. This udertaking is not a speedy process. I'm also guessing that the new hole may need to be drilled deep enough to reach under that bottom of any casing that has been cemeted into the formation in the original well.

There can be a lot of pressure exposed in the Earth's crust when a long column of rock is drilled out which has held back pressure for millenia. People I worked with on land based rigs saw hundreds of feet of 5" pipe pushed out of a hole like spagetti so there can be a tremendous amount of pressure to overcome in order to seal the hole.

A mile deep is just so deep to work at, and try to imagine trying to force very heavy things sideways up off the sea floor as well as cutting through thick steel.

If you ever watched the old well head fire fighting movies starring Red Adair the fire fighters used to blow out the fire with dynamite, cut the casing at the ground level and mount on a flat flange, add a well head ( huge valve) to the top half of the flange which was on a huge swivel, swing the valve over the gushing oil well in the open position and then slowly close the valve. Attempting to just quickly squeeze off the powerfull flow of oil might cause the casing to rupture or for it to get pushed out of the hole.

It's been about 20 years since I worked the rigs and some information above may not be accurate but hopefully most of the ideas provide some interesting information. Hopefully Clownshoes can check my information for validity and correct any possible mistakes.

 

[Clownshoes]

The blow out preventers are built with huge rams inside that are pushed together sideways hydraulically, and they have solid rubber fittings on the ends designed to either seal around a round drill pipe, or close flat together to seal a hole with no pipe in it. The blow out preventers wiegh tons ( 18 tons on my rig) are are mounted on the top of the large round steel casing that is cemented in the top of the hole. I worked helping drill 18,000 ft holes on land and the top casing was 36" round. More casing was cemented into the hole in smaller diameters every thousand (?) feet or so to hold back the pressures that we were tapping into underground. The extremely powerful hydraulic pumps that pressurise the blow out preventer's rams are gone as the rig is ruined. The blow out preventers also work best when the pipe that they close around is straight and verticle. I'm just guessing that the fact the the pipe and casing was bent over sideways when the rig sank, that there is a lot of pressure sideways on the bent pipe and the chances of the automatic blow out preventers rams sealing around that pipe is not good.

It's probably a lot faster to drill another hole to try and seal the well than to try and cut the casing, move the huge BOP's, and then try and attach a wellhead to the casing, all working at a mile deep.

Trying to crush the casing flat with a huge explosion would be a crap shoot IMHO as there is a small open (5"?) pipe inside a 36" piece of steel casing that is cemented into the hole with smaller casing cemented into it as well. There is probably enough pressure at that depth to keep the oil flowing through any hole and if the top of the formation was fractured by the blast then the oil would just seep up through the new cracks in the rock. I worked on one rig where things started ouzing up out of the ground around our rig camp which was about a mile from the well. We cemented in more casing quickly to stop the fluids creeping up throough the rock.
At least if the top of the hole is left intact then there is something to work with if drilling other holes don't work. The real problem is trying to work a mile deep with ROV's is like trying to grab the stuffed toy in the arcade box with the smooth three pronged grappling device.

I'm also assuming that when a relief hole is drilled that casing will have to be cemented into the rock and a well head installed on the seafloor so drilling mud and cement can be pressured into the hole. This udertaking is not a speedy process. I'm also guessing that the new hole may need to be drilled deep enough to reach under that bottom of any casing that has been cemeted into the formation in the original well.

There can be a lot of pressure exposed in the Earth's crust when a long column of rock is drilled out which has held back pressure for millenia. People I worked with on land based rigs saw hundreds of feet of 5" pipe pushed out of a hole like spagetti so there can be a tremendous amount of pressure to overcome in order to seal the hole.

A mile deep is just so deep to work at, and try to imagine trying to force very heavy things sideways up off the sea floor as well as cutting through thick steel.

If you ever watched the old well head fire fighting movies starring Red Adair the fire fighters used to blow out the fire with dynamite, cut the casing at the ground level and mount on a flat flange, add a well head ( huge valve) to the top half of the flange which was on a huge swivel, swing the valve over the gushing oil well in the open position and then slowly close the valve. Attempting to just quickly squeeze off the powerfull flow of oil might cause the casing to rupture or for it to get pushed out of the hole.

It's been about 20 years since I worked the rigs and some information above may not be accurate but hopefully most of the ideas provide some interesting information. Hopefully Clownshoes can check my information for validity and correct any possible mistakes.

Ya and you have to consider that hopefully they dont run into any problems drilling a new hole as a number of things can go wrong out there that would set back drilling even more.

 

[Unabogie]

Awesome information, people. Unfortunately, it sounds like the gulf is really screwed.

 

[Soapy Sam]

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=91658

As for the gulf being screwed- no. Damaged, yes.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Awesome information, people. Unfortunately, it sounds like the gulf is really screwed.

It'll take quite some time, and resources, to clean up the mess, no doubt about it. I just hope BP stays on the hook for the cleanup cost.

 

[BenBurch]

It'll take quite some time, and resources, to clean up the mess, no doubt about it. I just hope BP stays on the hook for the cleanup cost.

Just like Exxon did with the Valdez...

Justice is most often on the side of the person with the most money to spend on lawyers.

 

[KingMerv00]

Just like Exxon did with the Valdez...

Justice is most often on the side of the person with the most money to spend on lawyers.

If I'm reading this correctly, Exxon settled for $507 million and paid 2 billion for cleanup.

I'll leave it up to the class to decide whether or not that is "justice".

 

[BenBurch]

If I'm reading this correctly, Exxon settled for $507 million and paid 2 billion for cleanup.

I'll leave it up to the class to decide whether or not that is "justice".

They settled with some people, but are still in court appealing damage claims according to the last information I have, one case having been significantly reduced by the USC in 2008 and handed back down to a lower court.

 

[KingMerv00]

They settled with some people, but are still in court appealing damage claims according to the last information I have, one case having been significantly reduced by the USC in 2008 and handed back down to a lower court.

In your opinion, what was unjust about how the case turned out? (Honest question. Not meant to suggest a certain answer.)

 

[Clownshoes]

Its pretty ridiculous to condemn all the oil companies just because of this accident.

Contrary to what the media would have you believe drilling is very safe now days and have very little environmental impact on the areas they drill. You wouldn't believe all the regulations and safety measures these companies put in place to minimize these sorts of things.

They dont rape and pillage the land like some would have you believe. They are regular people like you and me working there and its not a big conspiracy to screw everyone and everything they can.

 

[soylent]

I wonder if a small nuclear device detonated near the bore would collapse the bore?

Not that anybody is likely to authorize such a thing, but I believe that there is a chance that it might just work.

I doubt it. Underground nuclear tests have been studied for stimulating natural gas and oil fields(and when I say studied, I mean tens of nuclear tests in oil, oil shale and gas reservoirs).

Underground nuclear tests generate a spherical cavity lined with molten and re-solidified rocks and surrounded by fractures. The roof may cave in, producing what is known as a rubble chimney, depending on things like geology and depth. The roof can cave in all the way up to ground level, forming a subsidence or crater.

Here's an example from the gnome shot:

 

[TraneWreck]

Its pretty ridiculous to condemn all the oil companies just because of this accident.

Contrary to what the media would have you believe drilling is very safe now days and have very little environmental impact on the areas they drill. You wouldn't believe all the regulations and safety measures these companies put in place to minimize these sorts of things.

They dont rape and pillage the land like some would have you believe. They are regular people like you and me working there and its not a big conspiracy to screw everyone and everything they can.

They're safe until they're not safe, then they create environmental catastrophes.

How many such spills are acceptable?

But that's not even considering the environmental problems that come from burning that product in internal-combustion engines.

In 1998, when gas was about $1 a gallon, the International Center for Technology Assessment performed a study to determine the true cost of a gallon of gasoline when the cost of all forms of subsidies were considered. They included tax subsidies to the oil industry, government program subsidies, protection costs involved in oil shipment and motor vehicle services, environmental, health, and social costs, and other externalities of motor vehicle use. They concluded that the actual cost of gasoline was $15 a gallon.

http://www.icta.org/doc/Real Price of Gasoline.pdf

Notice that since 1998 we've seen a spike in the cost of oil, a massive war waged in part to protect our oil supply, and now this catastrophe that will easily exceed $1 billion when it's all over. And what will the future costs of global warming be?

The costs associated with the use of oil are far more than just clean up efforts when something goes wrong.

 

[Jackson Skeptics]

I've just arrived from the Mississippi coast, where people are quite busy on this. I didn't get a chance to talk to any of the clean-up crew first hand, but from what I've gathered in local papers, and from some environmentalists on the way over, here's what is going on:

Booms are being used to protect inland estuaries, wetlands, and tidal regions. Since this is the spawning time of the year, these are in serious trouble. Crabs, shrimp, and fish all use these shallow shoals and estuaries for spawning.

Booms are not being used on sand beaches. There are a limited number of booms available, and sand beaches are, relatively speaking, much easier to clean.

Dispersant foams and cleansers are of limited use here: These foams cause the congealed oil to sink to the bottom of the sea - in this case, right on top of some of the world's largest oyster beds.

No one on the ground has of yet suggested burning the oil (not sure what the logistical issues there are) or exploding the hole - and robots have so far been unable to seal the deal, so to speak. So the oil keeps leaking.

A bit of recap: I don't think there's any "magic bullet" single thing that can solve this issue. It's a huge gusher - if the relief well is finished at the timeframe suggested, this will be about 3 times larger than the exxon valdez. It is a problem. The coastal ecosystems here are stressed and fragile.