Homeopathy does work

[Dr. MAS]

A member of Randi Land got registeration at www.nchpakistan.com forum. He/She claims to be the representative of skeptics.

According to him (which I understood), homeopathy does work but work under 18x potency. He and moderator of skeptic forum have the reservation on above 18x potency. They said, as above 18x potency does not have any molecule of starting material hense there is no question of medicinal effect in above 18x potency. (Please correct me if I mis-understood the representative) .....

You people are demanding from me to explain how homeopathy does work. I am ready to explain it till you satisfy. If I fail, I will accept my defeat at this forum and will burn my entire homeopathic certifications in the prescence of huge gatherings.

1. Do you want to learn homeopathic working under 18x potency or above 18x?

2. Tell me, do you agree, homeopathy does work in below 18x potency in any form?

3. If I ask you to take four drops of 19x cyanide dilution as suggested by homeopath then would you take it?

 

[Ashles]

You people are demanding from me to explain how homeopathy does work. I am ready to explain it till you satisfy. If I fail, I will accept my defeat at this forum and will burn my entire homeopathic certifications in the prescence of huge gatherings.

No demands - on an internet forum we cannot demand anything of you. We can merely request.

But as you have offered to explain it to us several times, and indeed do so again above ("I am ready to explain it till you satisfy") then it seems reasonable to ask for the actual explanation.

Here's the thread for you to explain it on

I have said in that thread that you may explain homeopathy in any way you like, starting at any point you like.

Why are you asking us about homeopathy or where to start?

A lecturer/teacher decides the best place to start when trying to explain something.

Please Dr. MAS, start where you like in your explanation.

 

[Dr. MAS]

Dear Ashles,

Your (here your means all skeptics) point was homeopathy does not work.

Read 31+14 pages.

You had only one point, according to avogadro's number potencies does not contain any starting material hense it does not work. Actually you did not perform experiment to proove this opinion.

I rejected this theory and you are now convinced that avogadro number theory is hypothetical base. Read few posts at www.nchpakistan.com forum. Then you (and other few members) starting shouting, we have no problem with avogadro's number. The problem is homeopathic medicines do not work.

Again a drama was staged by my colleagues and now you are again convinced that you have no problem with below 18x but you have some doubt over above 18x potency?

Kindly tell me who is wasting time? me or you? Who has problem in understanding homeopathic medicines? Me or you?

 

[Ashles]

Kindly tell me who is wasting time? me or you? Who has problem in understanding homeopathic medicines? Me or you?

At the moment my honest answer is both and both.

So is your explanation then is basically that under 18X dilution there may be some perfectly normal pharmacological effect from some of the highly active substances?

So how does this relate to the theory of increased stength with dilution?
How does this relate to 'not very active' remedies?
How does this relate to 'incurable' diseases like AIDS which you claim can be cured by homeopathy?
How does this relate to remedies sold over 18X dilution? Are you saying these are all useless?

In essence what about all the questions you have been asked about high levels of dilution where no molecules are likely to be present?

 

[El Greco]

You had only one point, according to avogadro's number potencies does not contain any starting material hense it does not work. Actually you did not perform experiment to proove this opinion.

Who says this is the only issue ? The whole principle of homeopathy is ridiculous. Why should "like treat like" ? Explain this too while you are on the subject.

 

[Ashles]

Oh yeah - how does this relate to 'like cures like'?

I forgot that one.

 

[Donks]

More hand waving from Dr. MAS.

Dr. MAS, in page 4 of a thread that is far too long already, you said "I can explain the scientific nature of use of Nat Sulph in Hepatitis patient." Then you requested the qualifications of people before you began. You got them. People are still waiting for you.

 

[Dr. MAS]

More hand waving from Dr. MAS.

Dr. MAS, in page 4 of a thread that is far too long already, you said "I can explain the scientific nature of use of Nat Sulph in Hepatitis patient." Then you requested the qualifications of people before you began. You got them. People are still waiting for you.

No, I never got.

Homeopathic class will start at www.nchpakistan.com forum on 10th may.

Those who are interested in participating in that class "How homeopathy does work?" fill out the proforma of admission. Separate classes will be organized for having different qualification status.

 

[MRC_Hans]

In other words, when you offered to explain here, you were dishonest?

I am deeply disappointed with you, Dr. MAS.

You have been posting here for weeks, boasting about what a fantastic teacher and homeopath you are, yet you have not managed to present one shred of evidence for your case.

Do you realize that you are looking very silly?

Hans

 

[Ashles]

Why do we have to fill out proforma of admission?

And what questions will be asked on this proforma?

And why can't you just outline your explanation as requested many, many times?

I have been waiting for the uberexcuse - the one that would prevent you from actually explaining homeopathy on the thread I created, and perhaps this might be it.

But I am certainly hoping to at least be able to read your homeopathy explanations on nchpakistan.com

 

[MRC_Hans]

No, I never got.

You are lying. Several posters stated their qualifications.

Homeopathic class will start at www.nchpakistan.com forum on 10th may.

I have to conclude that you do not dare try to teach us here, then?

Those who are interested in participating in that class "How homeopathy does work?" fill out the proforma of admission. Separate classes will be organized for having different qualification status.

I must conclude that you are a simple troll . How sad.

Hans

 

[Donks]

No, I never got.

Too bad for you I can go back and look it up, just in case you are not telling the truth.

School:
Physics to "Higher" level, grade A
Chemistry to "Higher" level, grade A
Mathematics to "Higher" level, grade A
Biology to paper one "Higher" level, pass not graded.

University:
Bachelor's degree in veterinary medicine, studying
Physics
Inorganic Chemistry
Organic Chemistry
Physical Chemistry
Zoology
Botany
Biochemistry
Physiology
Histology
Embryology
Anatomy
Virology
Bacteriology
Mycology
Parasitology
Pathology
Animal Husbandry
Pharmacology
Toxicology
Medicine
Therapeutics
Reproduction
Surgery

Bachelor's degree in pure biochemistry, studying
Physical chemistry
Inorganic chemistry
Organic chemistry
Biochemistry (cellular and molecular)

Doctor of Philosophy in applied biochemistry and physiology.

I have also taught diagnostic biochemistry at university level, and published many papers and a textbook on the subject.

Seems to me Rolfe is qualified.

Homeopathic class will start at www.nchpakistan.com forum on 10th may.

Those who are interested in participating in that class "How homeopathy does work?" fill out the proforma of admission. Separate classes will be organized for having different qualification status.

More hoops to jump?

 

[anor277]

Dr Mas wrote
A member of Randi Land got registeration at www.nchpakistan.com forum. He/She claims to be the representative of skeptics.

According to him (which I understood), homeopathy does work but work under 18x potency. He and moderator of skeptic forum have the reservation on above 18x potency. They said, as above 18x potency does not have any molecule of starting material hense there is no question of medicinal effect in above 18x potency. (Please correct me if I mis-understood the representative) .....

You people are demanding from me to explain how homeopathy does work. I am ready to explain it till you satisfy. If I fail, I will accept my defeat at this forum and will burn my entire homeopathic certifications in the prescence of huge gatherings.

1. Do you want to learn homeopathic working under 18x potency or above 18x?

2. Tell me, do you agree, homeopathy does work in below 18x potency in any form?

3. If I ask you to take four drops of 19x cyanide dilution as suggested by homeopath then would you take it?

I hope Dr Mas is not refering to the posts I made on,
http://www.nch.ipbfree.com
under the same user name I have here (see 'The role of Avogadro's..") in the skeptic room. If so, he is being extremely disingenuous.

For his information quotient he should note the following:
(i) I am not a representative of skeptics, nor have I claimed such on that site.
(ii) I did not say anything about the pharmaceutical efficacy of 18x preparations. I only agreed that there were a few 100000-1000000 particles in an 18x solution. Could such a concentration be biologically active? Possibly, but what do I know?
(iii) I have no knowledge that homeopathy works at all, at the 6x, 18x, or 30x potencies (whatever these are).

It appears Dr Mas has been trolling on 2 boards, this one here and his own, to which he invited our participation - he seems to have no short supply of sock puppets to run. It will come as no surprise to the users of this board that he offers no more explanation of homeopathy there than here.

 

[Timothy]

"Student of Mass Communication"

Just not a very good one in English

 

[Donks]

I hope Dr Mas is not refering to the posts I made on,
http://www.nch.ipbfree.com
under the same user name I have here (see 'The role of Avogadro's..") in the skeptic room. If so, he is being extremely disingenuous.

For his information quotient he should note the following:
(i) I am not a representative of skeptics, nor have I claimed such on that site.
(ii) I did not say anything about the pharmaceutical efficacy of 18x preparations. I only agreed that there were a few 100000-1000000 particles in an 18x solution. Could such a concentration be biologically active? Possibly, but what do I know?
(iii) I have no knowledge that homeopathy works at all, at the 6x, 18x, or 30x potencies (whatever these are).

It appears Dr Mas has been trolling on 2 boards, this one here and his own, to which he invited our participation - he seems to have no short supply of sock puppets to run. It will come as no surprise to the users of this board that he offers no more explanation of homeopathy there than here.

Homeopaths have a tendency to take any sort of affirmative answer to any question as a full admission that whatever happens to be their working theory is correct. I've seen it with Kumar a bunch of times. He asks 15 questions, you answer yes to one of them, and then he takes that to mean that you agree with everything he said.

 

[Ashles]

Yeah.

Poor Anor277 found his perfectly reasonable comments posted on a different forum by a deperate homeopath trying to distract everyone from his own basic scientific failings.

Dr. MAS really lost it towards the end. However I knew that would happen if someone just continually asked him to explain his theories in whatever manner he chose.

There's only so far you can reverse your car into a dead-end.

 

[delphi_ote]

Homeopaths have a tendency to take any sort of affirmative answer to any question as a full admission that whatever happens to be their working theory is correct. I've seen it with Kumar a bunch of times. He asks 15 questions, you answer yes to one of them, and then he takes that to mean that you agree with everything he said.

Hmm... sound like homeopathic thinking to me. The more diluted your affirmations, the stronger you agree.

If only the rest of their arguments could be so coherent...

 

[Perpetual Notion]

Since I'm a new member to the forums and relatively new to the world of homeopathy, I'm wondering if this is what happens with all homeopaths who come here? Has anyone ever come here and attempted to give a straight answer? MAS seems so extreme; I'm hoping that he's an abberration.

 

[Ashles]

Since I'm a new member to the forums and relatively new to the world of homeopathy, I'm wondering if this is what happens with all homeopaths who come here? Has anyone ever come here and attempted to give a straight answer? MAS seems so extreme; I'm hoping that he's an abberration.

Well it's a bit hard to give a straight answer when you are a homeopath for 2 main reasons.

1) Why does homeopathy not cure people when tested?
2) Why haven't they won the million dollar prize?

 

[Perpetual Notion]

I guess I thought someone would at least try to answer a few questions or even cop to "I know that there's nothing in science that bears it out, but I have faith in it, even though I can't prove it". I know it's not a good answer, but at least they'd be honest about it.