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Holocaust deniers, explain this.

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ddt said:
Go on that trip, Saggy, and all you other Holocaust deniers, and then come back and tell what you think then.
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I know a fringe holocaust denier who visited Auschwitz in the mid 80's. It broke his heart and changed his world view
 
I'd like to know how Holocaust deniers explain the fact that there are around 5 million or more Jews missing from the Earth.

oh, that's right, they never existed.
 
Gawdzilla said:
If I had any reason to disprove their claims, I might agree. But I'm putting up primary source material regarding the Holocaust and waiting to see if they can explain it away. So far, FAIL.
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I hate to say it, but Ignorantbystander is right and you are wrong: The material you are putting up in the OP does not really regard the holocaust! It shows, no one can deny that, the results of years of unspeakable crimes against humanity, but not the holocaust. If by "holocaust" you mean the planned direct mass murder of the european jews in an effort to exterminate them fromn the continent. This took place in east europe, with extermination camps in Poland, and roaming bands of Einsatzgruppen doing shootings and some mobile gassing on the territory of the USSR. Tat was the deliberate killing of several million Jews because they were Jews.

What happened in Buchenwald, Bergen Belsen, Dachau and other camps imn Germany is somewhat different in that these camps were not equipped for efficient mass murder. They were labor camps and also places where horrible experiments were done. Most inmates that died were not shot or gasses but succumbed to starvation or desease (some of which inflicted on purpose by so called "doctors"). "Only" about a fourth of those who died in Buchenwald were Jews.

So while the pictures show that horrible crimes happened at some concentration camps, they do not show anything that has much to do with the holocaust proper.
 
Oystein said:
What happened in Buchenwald, Bergen Belsen, Dachau and other camps imn Germany is somewhat different in that these camps were not equipped for efficient mass murder. They were labor camps
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The largest labor camp by far was Auschwitz, supplying up to 70,000 laborers every day to Siemens, Krupp, Farben, and many other industries in the area. These industries were crucial to the Nazi war effort. See a photo of the Farben plant near Auschwitz here ... http://www.holohoax101.com/103/

Odd place to kill 10,000 Jews per day right? The holohoax is absurd on its face, it depends on total ignorance of the facts.

As for being equipped for efficient mass murder, have a look at the hoax gas chamber at Auschwitz here http://www.holohoax101.com/, built by the Soviets after the war ! Completely absurd.
 
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Saggy said:
The largest labor camp by far was Auschwitz, supplying up to 70,000 laborers every day to Siemens, Krupp, Farben, and many other industries in the area. These industries were crucial to the Nazi war effort. See a photo of the Farben plant near Auschwitz here ... http://www.holohoax101.com/103/


Odd place to kill 10,000 Jews per day right? The holohoax is absurd on its face, it depends on total ignorance of the facts.
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So, you don't deny they were there? That many thousands died in the hands of their captors? And that this establishes a pattern of behavior?
 
Saggy said:
Odd place to kill 10,000 Jews per day right? The holohoax is absurd on its face, it depends on total ignorance of the facts.
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9+ million Jews in Europe in 1938.

3 or so million Jews in Europe in 1945.

explain that.

the fact is....millions of Jews have dissapeared. we know they didn't go to Israel, the USA, Russia.

and you guys have no idea how to explain it...other than "they didn't exist".

and yet, you have no evidence or proof of some sort of conspiracy to inflate Jewish population stats before the war......or to deflate them after the war.

ALL reason and logic leads to one very simple conclusion: 2/3rds of the Jews of Europe were murdered in gas chambers, by firing squads, and by disease & starvation.
 
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Saggy said:
The largest labor camp by far was Auschwitz, supplying up to 70,000 laborers every day to Siemens, Krupp, Farben, and many other industries in the area. These industries were crucial to the Nazi war effort. See a photo of the Farben plant near Auschwitz here ... http://www.holohoax101.com/103/

Odd place to kill 10,000 Jews per day right? The holohoax is absurd on its face, it depends on total ignorance of the facts.

As for being equipped for efficient mass murder, have a look at the hoax gas chamber at Auschwitz here http://www.holohoax101.com/, built by the Soviets after the war ! Completely absurd.
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Why do you hate Jews?
 
So wait... how does the story go from the deniers' perspective?

The Nazis put the Jews into ghettos, they destroyed Jewish-owned businesses, they summarily executed political opponents, they massacred civilian populations all over occupied lands, they rounded up Jews and other undesirables and shipped them off to concentration camps where many would die of disease and starvation... but systematically murder 11 million people [6 million Jews included]? Oh no no no, they'd NEVER even CONSIDER that!
 
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Oystein said:
I hate to say it, but Ignorantbystander is right and you are wrong: The material you are putting up in the OP does not really regard the holocaust! It shows, no one can deny that, the results of years of unspeakable crimes against humanity, but not the holocaust. If by "holocaust" you mean the planned direct mass murder of the european jews in an effort to exterminate them fromn the continent. This took place in east europe, with extermination camps in Poland, and roaming bands of Einsatzgruppen doing shootings and some mobile gassing on the territory of the USSR. Tat was the deliberate killing of several million Jews because they were Jews.

What happened in Buchenwald, Bergen Belsen, Dachau and other camps imn Germany is somewhat different in that these camps were not equipped for efficient mass murder. They were labor camps and also places where horrible experiments were done. Most inmates that died were not shot or gasses but succumbed to starvation or desease (some of which inflicted on purpose by so called "doctors"). "Only" about a fourth of those who died in Buchenwald were Jews.

So while the pictures show that horrible crimes happened at some concentration camps, they do not show anything that has much to do with the holocaust proper.
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There is much truth to this and it makes an important point. The crimes of the Nazis were many, varied, and hard to distill into a simple, concise, statement. In trying to do so, we may misunderstand the nature of the regime.

I think what happened for me, and I assume for millions of others, is that we started learning about the Holocaust during childhood, when simple explanations were all we could understand. As ten year olds we can understand, "Hitler was an evil man who hated the Jews and killed millions of them in his concentration camps. We call it 'The Holocaust'." (And, as an aside, we didn't use that word when I was growing up.)

Most people never learn much about history, and so never go beyond the ten year old version of the story. The reality is far more complicated than that. Hitler hated lots of people, and he used brutality against all of his opponents, and he, or at least his lieutenants that carried out the exterminations, had all sorts of justifications for why exterminations and mass starvation were justified under the circumstances. Reading about the Nazi era later in life was somewhat disturbing for me, because I realized that it wasn't as bizarre as it seemed, and bad stuff like it could happen again.

Meanwhile, though, the deniers pick some apparent inconsistency between the grossly simplified version of events and reality, and reach the idiotic conclusion that none of it happened.
 
Saggy said:
Odd place to kill 10,000 Jews per day right? The holohoax is absurd on its face, it depends on total ignorance of the facts.
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The Rwandan Genocide killed 8,000 people per day using people going door-to-door mostly on foot and carrying machetes.

The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass murder of an estimated 800,000 people. Over the course of approximately 100 days from the assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana on April 6 through mid-July, at least 800,000 people were killed, according to a Human Rights Watch estimate.[1] Other estimates of the death toll have ranged between 500,000 and 1,000,000 [2] (a commonly quoted figure is 800,000) or as much as 20% of the country's total population.​

Surely no proper aryan will allow his beloved Reich with it's mechanized efficiency and high-tech methods to be outdone by a bunch of "jungle bunnies" with knives, would he?
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass murder of an estimated 800,000 people. Over the course of approximately 100 days from the assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana on April 6 through mid-July, at least 800,000 people were killed, according to a Human Rights Watch estimate
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this was done with machetes and guns, by a rag-tag army.

the Nazis had millions of soldiers, and thousands of volunteers from occupied lands.

if the nutty 3rd world Rwandans can kill 800,000 people in 100 days, the Nazis could kill 5.1 million Jews in 6 years.
 
Gawdzilla said:
If I had any reason to disprove their claims, I might agree. But I'm putting up primary source material regarding the Holocaust and waiting to see if they can explain it away. So far, FAIL.
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They won't need to explain it away since it's not in conflict with their claims.
In fact it's almost like putting oil on their fire (or how to say it) since they love attacking popular belief. The only way they can score.

If I were a conspiraloon I'd accuse you of being a shill :)
 
Ignorantbystander said:
They won't need to explain it away since it's not in conflict with their claims.
In fact it's almost like putting oil on their fire (or how to say it) since they love attacking popular belief. The only way they can score.

If I were a conspiraloon I'd accuse you of being a shill :)
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It's not "popular belief", as you would have seen if you'd looked at the links. It's eyewitness reports from places where the Nazis showed their true colors.
 
I can give the names of several relatives who died in the Holocaust. I wonder, where did they go?
 
Saggy said:
Odd place to kill 10,000 Jews per day right?
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I don't know, you have a better suggestion? some place in the forest near a railway line maybe?

The holohoax is absurd on its face, it depends on total ignorance of the facts.
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Ignorance of facts makes the holocaust indeed seem absurd, that's why deniers make a habit of ignoring facts.

As for being equipped for efficient mass murder, have a look at the hoax gas chamber at Auschwitz here http://www.holohoax101.com/, built by the Soviets after the war ! Completely absurd.
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Come on Saggy, you are a bit of a seasoned denier, who are you trying to fool that the main killing centre of Auschwitz-Birkenau was the gaschamber at Auschwitz I.
btw, the reconstruction of this gaschamber doesn't or couldn't serve the purpose to prove the holocaust happened (by your standards). So it's of no use to argue about the doors or other features of the reconstruction that you consider not adequate.
 
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