Hokulele - kurious_kathy Book Challenge

Flo said:
Enough with the excuses and evasions, spend less time preaching in answer to other questions and read the book !
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I think we misunderstand KK's "mission" here. She's here to preach, to cast her net of rote learning wide in the hope that some reader(s) will be snared.

What anyone here thinks about all this is entirely immaterial to her. I doubt she has the capacity to process any information at all, so approaching her intelligently and expecting a rational answer is a waste of time, IMO.


M.
 
Moochie said:
I think we misunderstand KK's "mission" here. She's here to preach, to cast her net of rote learning wide in the hope that some reader(s) will be snared.

What anyone here thinks about all this is entirely immaterial to her. I doubt she has the capacity to process any information at all, so approaching her intelligently and expecting a rational answer is a waste of time, IMO.


M.
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I think we all understand that very well, thank you :D

Which is why I'm telling her to stop lying (by giving excuses and evading the subject) and to keep the word she publicly gave to Hokulele to read and comment the book ...
 
Flo said:
I think we all understand that very well, thank you :D

Which is why I'm telling her to stop lying (by giving excuses and evading the subject) and to keep the word she publicly gave to Hokulele to read and comment the book ...
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We need an emoticon for flogging a dead mind.


M.
 
Having read that website, it's clear that KK is only using us to fullfill her own needs.

in the "about heaven" page http://www.calvarychapel.com/about_heaven.cfm

It clearly states that one of the mandates of her religion is to:
WITNESS TO OTHERS—share your faith in Jesus Christ with others. Pray that the Lord will reveal how you should witness and when (Mark 16:15).
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In other words, she could really care less about us or anyone (see her stance on suffering). It's only to fullfill her own selfish, "get into heaven" needs.
 
Hokulele said:
If her final destination is dependent on her success in winning converts here, I don't think she will enjoy the end result very much.
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Lucky for her, in her brand of Christianity it is more important to be blindly obedient than good.

ETA: ...at something.
 
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On the plus side, looking at the church website, the pastor does say that the Earth could be 6 million years old, rather than just 6000 years. So at least developments in human knowledge of the last 200 years are acknowledged.

KK, a feeling nags me that I shouldn't be snarky towards you, but I really disagree with you very strongly with, for instance, what you have just written about mental health and the possible destination of suicides.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Well we are non denominational at Calvary Chapel. Here's a link to more info on our belief, http://www.calvarychapel.com/what_we_believe.cfm
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are you sure about that KK?

kurious_kathy said:
First of all I did not state I thought everything Charlie states is true. He thinks all Catholics are saved, I do not agree for I see how they worship a different eucharist Christ and have made an idol of Mary so I believe most are not. If they do get saved in a Catholic church I believe they would have to go to a different church to get their teaching right since Catholocism has strayed from true doctrine. I think Jesus is very pissed off when a Catholic prays to Mary!
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Calvary Chapel Website (What We Believe Section) said:
We are not a denominational church, nor are we opposed to denominations as such, only their over-emphasis of the doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the Body of Christ.
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kurious_kathy said:
As to why it's wrong to question God's sovereignty, it just is.
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So the best you can do is to give an answer like your talking to children. Sorry but we are not children and the sooner you understand that the better it will be for you.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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arthwollipot said:
I don't talk to my children like that. From the outset, I have always tried to explain the reasons for things to my kids, and encouraged them to look things up for themselves.
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However, the only book you've given them has one line that just says, "Because I said so."
 
MIKILLINI said:
That one works well when there's an overload of "why?"
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I find that answering "why is the sky blue" with a treatise on Rayliegh vs. Mie Scattering an effective way of suppressing further why questions?:D
 
joobz said:
Having read that website, it's clear that KK is only using us to fullfill her own needs.

in the "about heaven" page http://www.calvarychapel.com/about_heaven.cfm

It clearly states that one of the mandates of her religion is to:


In other words, she could really care less about us or anyone (see her stance on suffering). It's only to fullfill her own selfish, "get into heaven" needs.
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Everyone needs to get to heaven but intellects have a different struggle than others.

And I do care about others, sometimes I get so affected by others comments and struggles I need to take time with the Lord just to calm down and then I can move forward. I do not like knowing hell is real, but I do. What would you do if you were me having this knowledge? Would you not want to warn others??
 
kurious_kathy said:
I do not like knowing hell is real, but I do. What would you do if you were me having this knowledge? Would you not want to warn others??
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Believe me; we understand that.
It only makes sense.

The problem comes when you keep pushing your agenda on us, but never give any thought to the replies you receive.

Many of us used to believe in heaven and/or hell. Some of us here still do. The difference is, we've thought about it.
The very basic premise of all your arguments on this board, and of all your claims, is faulty. And upon this foundation of inconsistency and contradiction, you've build a tower of ignorance.

Look at your answers to our questions.
You say "that's the way it is", instead of thinking.

That's what irks us. That you shy away from thinking about the things you claim.
There's no shame, or harm, in thinking about something.

But you keep ignoring our points, ignoring our arguments, and ignoring our views, all the while preaching yours to us.

If you only took the time to think about what we say, you would be able to comprehend that our view is foundationally different than yours. And that all your arguments, based upon your belief system, are useless and often condescending.

Understanding the basic underlying difference: that atheists really truly do not have a belief in god, would make you a better apologist.
You would not need to rely on arguments that only work if you already believe in what is being argued for.
 
joobz said:
No. In fact I think that idea is horrible and detestable. You are saying that god wants us to be dumb and blindly obedient. This concept completely contradicts the whole free will argument.

who was the one who had to prove job's love?

There is nothing complicated about this.
God made job suffer to prove his love.
If I make my child suffer to prove his love for me, I'd be an evil father.
Therefore God is like an evil father.
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Well as for Job there are many lessons I see that are good even though what he went through wasn't good. It seems to me God taught Job it wasn't about being good on his own merit but he needed Gods righteouseness to save him. Do you really think God allowed that for Job for no good reason when some good did come of it? Horrible things are not what anyone wants but lets face it most everyone goes through something painful in life. If God allows something painful in my life as he does, I am learning to trust he is trying to accomplish something through it. Pain changes people and maybe that's good sometimes to help us be humble which is something God needs of us so we look to him for help. He wants to deliver us from evil but we must ask him first. In Jobs case he glorified God and was restored which is the best we can all hope for if something so devestating where to happen. And if terrorist were to kill me tomorrow I would have to say I am now free from pain forever as my eternity is sure in Christ. I love him because he first loved me.

As for your view of children I have to say it is not too positive. I see children have a simple way of looking at things and they see the good which is something we adults could try to learn from. Children are teachable and sincere and sometimes they say the most profound things that we miss. Chilren seem to be happier because they do not live a complicated intellectual life which is something I admire. If we can learn from our children how to keep life simpler that is a good thing. A child is easy to be with because they just want your time but when we grow up we require much more which really does muck things up a bit.

God help us all learn from the young ones to see the good and love more! The only other concern I have for some children is like what goes on in other countries where they teach young children to use guns. Jesus says it would be better if those adults that messed them up teaching them evil had a millstone tied around their neck and thrown into the botttom of the ocean. These evil men who teach children to do evil will be punished. Does anyone know more about where these things are happening? Iraq, India, Africa??
 
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X said:
Believe me; we understand that.
It only makes sense.

The problem comes when you keep pushing your agenda on us, but never give any thought to the replies you receive.

Many of us used to believe in heaven and/or hell. Some of us here still do. The difference is, we've thought about it.
The very basic premise of all your arguments on this board, and of all your claims, is faulty. And upon this foundation of inconsistency and contradiction, you've build a tower of ignorance.

Look at your answers to our questions.
You say "that's the way it is", instead of thinking.

That's what irks us. That you shy away from thinking about the things you claim.
There's no shame, or harm, in thinking about something.

But you keep ignoring our points, ignoring our arguments, and ignoring our views, all the while preaching yours to us.

If you only took the time to think about what we say, you would be able to comprehend that our view is foundationally different than yours. And that all your arguments, based upon your belief system, are useless and often condescending.

Understanding the basic underlying difference: that atheists really truly do not have a belief in god, would make you a better apologist.
You would not need to rely on arguments that only work if you already believe in what is being argued for.
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Okay I understand you do not understand me the way I try to share things. But when you say many did believe in heaven or hell at one time but now they do not, at what point did you stop believing in heaven or hell? Was it when you started belieivng in evolution rather than creation? Is it true until you can see creation is true and evolution false you cannot accept the rest of what scripture teaches is true?

Or is it the problem of pain? Do many of you like the author of this book decided because their is so much pain and suffering in the world that God can't exist?
 
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