Health Care Law Unconstitutional

[deepatrax]

was the Second Militia Act of 1792 a federal act? or by the states?

The Second Militia Act of 1792 did not affect all citizens, the militias were overseen by the States and there were exceptions.

 

[DC]

The Second Militia Act of 1792 did not affect all citizens, the militias were overseen by the States and there were exceptions.

yeah true, only a certain age and only a certain SKIN COLOR......

 

[deepatrax]

yeah true, only a certain age and only a certain SKIN COLOR......

indeed.

btw, Americans males of all colors are still required to sign up for the Selective Service (the military draft) when they're 18. But not required to buy anything for it. Nor are women required to sign up.

 

[DC]

indeed.

btw, Americans males of all colors are still required to sign up for the Selective Service (the military draft) when they're 18. But not required to buy anything for it. Nor are women required to sign up.

so it would be OK for a federal mandate that forces 18-90 year old white people to buy health insurance?

 

[deepatrax]

so it would be OK for a federal mandate that forces 18-90 year old white people to buy health insurance?

That wouldn't pass other Constitutional muster...

since 1792, there have been additional Amendments to the Constitution and laws passed regarding discrimination

 

[DC]

That wouldn't pass other Constitutional muster...

since 1792, there have been additional Amendments to the Constitution and laws passed regarding discrimination

so according to the constitution you would have to make it mandatory to everyone the same?

 

[deepatrax]

so according to the constitution you would have to make it mandatory to everyone the same?

no. the fact that it applies to everyone isn't what would make it constitutional.

if the pro-mandate are gonna try to hold up the second militia acts of 1792 as their precedent before the Supreme Court, then they MUST do so based on what it required at the time and who it applied to and who was exempt...not based on a what-if scenario.

 

[DC]

no. the fact that it applies to everyone isn't what would make it constitutional.

if the pro-mandate are gonna try to hold up the second militia acts of 1792 as their precedent before the Supreme Court, then they MUST do so based on what it required at the time and who it applied to and who was exempt...not based on a what-if scenario.

well its up to the US citizens to either drop mandatory health care or change the constitution in case it is indeed unconstitutional.

here in my country, Health insurance is a duty and health care a right.

 

[Meadmaker]

An ironic element to all of this is that the conservatives are resting their hopes on the "non-commerce cannot be regulated" argument.

Health care is a huge aspect of everyone's life. It affects all of us financially. It affects all of us personally. Sooner or later there will be some form of a universal health care act because it cannot be avoided. The alternative is to let people suffer because they cannot afford to pay, and that will not happen. As more and more people age and find themselves in need of health care that they cannot afford, and more and more of the "sandwich generation" finds themselves faced with the choice of extreme sacrifice for them and their children versus allowing their parents to suffer, there will be a government solution.

The irony is that of all possible government solutions, the individual mandate is the least intrusive and most pro-business of all. Nevertheless, the Republicans are going after it on constitutional grounds. I seriously doubt they will succeed. I think they'll get 3 or 4 votes of the 9 that matter, but I would be very surprised if they get 5. However, if they do manage to eke out the victory, they will have successfully managed to guarantee that a single payer plan will pass. Perhaps not until 2020, but it will pass.

 

[deepatrax]

well its up to the US citizens to either drop mandatory health care or change the constitution in case it is indeed unconstitutional.

here in my country, Health insurance is a duty and health care a right.

A Legal right in the UK

 

[DC]

A Legal right in the UK

in Switzerland it is a right you have from birth on, even before birth actually.

 

[deepatrax]

An ironic element to all of this is that the conservatives are resting their hopes on the "non-commerce cannot be regulated" argument.

Health care is a huge aspect of everyone's life. It affects all of us financially. It affects all of us personally. Sooner or later there will be some form of a universal health care act because it cannot be avoided. The alternative is to let people suffer because they cannot afford to pay, and that will not happen. As more and more people age and find themselves in need of health care that they cannot afford, and more and more of the "sandwich generation" finds themselves faced with the choice of extreme sacrifice for them and their children versus allowing their parents to suffer, there will be a government solution.

The irony is that of all possible government solutions, the individual mandate is the least intrusive and most pro-business of all. Nevertheless, the Republicans are going after it on constitutional grounds. I seriously doubt they will succeed. I think they'll get 3 or 4 votes of the 9 that matter, but I would be very surprised if they get 5. However, if they do manage to eke out the victory, they will have successfully managed to guarantee that a single payer plan will pass. Perhaps not until 2020, but it will pass.

Your entire analysis depends on the U.S. at some point becoming a center-left country...when it's a center-right country at this point.

btw, I'm not arguing against this as a health insurance issue...to me it's a Congressional powers issue.

It's my position (and the position of many others) that Congress cannot mandate that all citizens purchase a good/service from a private company and be fined if they don't.

I don't care what the good/service is...health insurance, rice cakes, ipods...doesn't matter.

If the argument is that anything that could affect health care costs can be mandated by Congress...then it could be expanded to apply to virtually anything since everything we do has some affect on our health. The food we eat, what we drink, the television we watch, the time we spend on the Internet, how much we exercise, etc.

You really believe that Congress has the power to mandate and regulate all of that?

 

[deepatrax]

in Switzerland it is a right you have from birth on, even before birth actually.

a legal right.

 

[DC]

a legal right.

a real and existing right.

 

[willhaven]

The Second Militia Act of 1792 did not affect all citizens, the militias were overseen by the States and there were exceptions.

And there are exceptions to the individual mandate as well.

 

[deepatrax]

a real and existing right.

If you were the last person on Earth, what would happen to your right to have a medical professional give you treatment?

You'd be without health care, but you'd STILL have the freedom of speech to demand it...even if only from the squirrels and rats.

checkmate.

 

[DC]

If you were the last person on Earth, what would happen to your right to have a medical professional give you treatment?

You'd be without health care, but you'd STILL have the freedom of speech to demand it...even if only from the squirrels and rats.

checkmate.

rights are a construction of societies, when there is no society there are no rights. you can however do whatever you please then. but that has nothing to do with rights. but lets take that to the other thread whit your thought experiment showing those alleged natural rights do not exist.

 

[deepatrax]

...
when there is no society there are no rights. you can however do whatever you please then
...

in this context, rights are merely freedoms to do something.

we're talking about the same thing.

 

[bokonon]

This is why abandoning the public option was a mistake.

 

[C_Felix]

So, how long before its before the SCotUS?