Health Care Law Unconstitutional

[johnny karate]

Exactly. It's why I wish they would have just pushed through with the public option. Obama is being criticized for being a socialist commie who wants a government takeover of healthcare anyway, and now he gets his attempts at compromise thrown in his face.

 

[Emperor_Gestahl]

If there's a third option there I really would love to see it, because I'm not fond of the mandate. But I'm even less fond of the pre-existing condition trap.

Wouldn't a good old single-payer system be a third option? Like the universal health care Obama promised? No such thing as a pre-existing condition if you're covered from birth.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

Wouldn't a good old single-payer system be a third option? Like the universal health care Obama promised? No such thing as a pre-existing condition if you're covered from birth.

I'm trying to imagine the media machinations that would follow an honest proposal of single-payer. I'd be all for it, but just imagine the spin if the watered down bill we got was portrayed as a socialistic government takeover of healthcare.

 

[gnome]

Exactly. It's why I wish they would have just pushed through with the public option. Obama is being criticized for being a socialist commie who wants a government takeover of healthcare anyway, and now he gets his attempts at compromise thrown in his face.

I think it was conservative democrats that insisted a public option be removed in order to vote for it. Republicans were voting against it either way.

 

[gnome]

Wouldn't a good old single-payer system be a third option? Like the universal health care Obama promised? No such thing as a pre-existing condition if you're covered from birth.

Perhaps so, but I meant one that might actually pass through the legislature.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

He also subjugates the necessary and proper clause to the commerce clause.

Of course he does. Any rational person would because the clause grants power to make laws to carry into effect the powers enumerated before it. It must be subjugated to an enumerated power because it says it must.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I read the 78 page legal opinion.

Uh, turgid it was.

But it made sense, for those who care about the Constitution ... all of it, not just the Commerce Clause.

 

[Meadmaker]

With this ruling today, the underlying reality of the situation becomes clear. There are nine votes that matter, and for all practical purposes, there is one vote that matters. Which side will Justice Kennedy join?

One other important thing changed today. Judge Vinson threw out the whole law, not just the part that starts in 2014. That makes it more urgent to get this before the high nine as quickly as possible.

 

[Meadmaker]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/31/judge-uses-obamas-words-against-him/

"In ruling against President Obama‘s health care law, federal Judge Roger Vinson used Mr. Obama‘s own position from the 2008 campaign against him, arguing that there are other ways to tackle health care short of requiring every American to purchase insurance.

“I note that in 2008, then-Senator Obama supported a health care reform proposal that did not include an individual mandate because he was at that time strongly opposed to the idea, stating that ‘if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house,’” Judge Vinson wrote in a footnote toward the end of the 78-page ruling Monday."

I'm suspicious of judges who include campaign speeches as part of legal rulings, but that's just me.

 

[thaiboxerken]

It's impressive how the Republicans will file legal disputes against their own ideas.

 

[Beerina]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/31/judge-uses-obamas-words-against-him/

"In ruling against President Obama‘s health care law, federal Judge Roger Vinson used Mr. Obama‘s own position from the 2008 campaign against him, arguing that there are other ways to tackle health care short of requiring every American to purchase insurance.

“I note that in 2008, then-Senator Obama supported a health care reform proposal that did not include an individual mandate because he was at that time strongly opposed to the idea, stating that ‘if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house,’” Judge Vinson wrote in a footnote toward the end of the 78-page ruling Monday."

 

[Bob Blaylock]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/31/judge-uses-obamas-words-against-him/

"In ruling against President Obama‘s health care law, federal Judge Roger Vinson used Mr. Obama‘s own position from the 2008 campaign against him, arguing that there are other ways to tackle health care short of requiring every American to purchase insurance.

“I note that in 2008, then-Senator Obama supported a health care reform proposal that did not include an individual mandate because he was at that time strongly opposed to the idea, stating that ‘if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house,’” Judge Vinson wrote in a footnote toward the end of the 78-page ruling Monday."

By the logic that it takes to support the Obamacare scam, this would work. Just pass a law that requires everyone to buy a house, and which imposes prison sentences for those that break the law. Those who don't own their own home will be in prison, so they won't be homeless.

 

[deepatrax]

By the logic that it takes to support the Obamacare scam, this would work. Just pass a law that requires everyone to buy a house, and which imposes prison sentences for those that break the law. Those who don't own their own home will be in prison, so they won't be homeless.

I don't even know why Democrats are wasting time with the Individual Mandate anyway...

No amount of health insurance coverage will make you any healthier.

The Liberals should just mandate that all Americans exercise 3 to 5 times a week, buy rice cakes, wheat grass, and bean sprouts, adhere to the RDA guidelines, and outlaw sugar, salt, fast food, etc.

That'll save tons of health care $ costs!

Liberals, just tell the American people, "look, we know how you should live your life in order to be healthy. Your life choices ultimately will affect me in some way at some point in time...so we need to regulate what you eat, drink, watch and do at all times!"

We can all live in the same type of solar electric hybrid house...drive the same solar electric hybrid cars...eat the same bland food...wear the same environmentally friendly clothes!

It's a Liberal Utopia!!

 

[DC]

No amount of health insurance coverage will make you any healthier.

Car insurance is also not meant to replace your seatbelt......

 

[deepatrax]

Car insurance is also not meant to replace your seatbelt......

In the U.S., car insurance is:
- State mandated not Federally mandated
- Only required IF you want to own a car AND register it to drive it on public roads

Many people regularly choose not to own a car, pay ZERO auto insurance and incur ZERO penalties for doing so.

 

[DC]

In the U.S., car insurance is:
- State mandated not Federally mandated
- Only required IF you want to own a car AND register it to drive it on public roads

Many people regularly choose not to own a car, pay ZERO auto insurance and incur ZERO penalties for doing so.

and still those insurances don't save your live in an accident.....
just like Health insurance doesn't make you healthier.

But as we live in countries that doesn't let unhealthy people die because they have no money, it is the fairest solution to mandate an insurance. Unless you want to change your country in a way that it lets sick people die when they cannot pay.

 

[deepatrax]

and still those insurances don't save your live in an accident.....
just like Health insurance doesn't make you healthier.

But as we live in countries that doesn't let unhealthy people die because they have no money, it is the fairest solution to mandate an insurance. Unless you want to change your country in a way that it lets sick people die when they cannot pay.

it's funny...really it is.

I understand you're from Switzerland so I give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the U.S. Constitution and how things are run in America.

This is about the enumerated powers given to Congress in the Constitution.

Mandating that all citizens must purchase a good or service from a private company to enrich their profits is NOT Constitutional.

Congress has no power to regulate inactivity...it cannot FORCE commerce.

it doesn't matter how great of an idea this might seem (and yes, I do believe it's prudent to have Health Insurance)...but this is not Constitutional.

Giving Congress the power to do this means that they basically have the power to regulate and force you to do anything "for the good of the people"...and that's flat wrong.

Congress can no more force me to buy health insurance than they can force me to buy rice cakes.

 

[DC]

it's funny...really it is.

I understand you're from Switzerland so I give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the U.S. Constitution and how things are run in America.

This is about the enumerated powers given to Congress in the Constitution.

Mandating that all citizens must purchase a good or service from a private company to enrich their profits is NOT Constitutional.

Congress has no power to regulate inactivity...it cannot FORCE commerce.

it doesn't matter how great of an idea this might seem (and yes, I do believe it's prudent to have Health Insurance)...but this is not Constitutional.

Giving Congress the power to do this means that they basically have the power to regulate and force you to do anything "for the good of the people"...and that's flat wrong.

Congress can no more force me to buy health insurance than they can force me to buy rice cakes.

i read that there were mandatory things before.

 

[deepatrax]

i read that there were mandatory things before.

nothing Federally mandated that didn't have another option built into it.

Here there is no option. Other than being poor...which just means someone else would be forced to pay for you. I'd be surprised if that was the Obama position..."You have the option to be poor!"

States may require this, but then that's a State issue, not a Constitutional issue. And anyone who didn't like the State law could merely move to another State.

 

[DC]

nothing Federally mandated that didn't have another option built into it.

Here there is no option. Other than being poor...which just means someone else would be forced to pay for you. I'd be surprised if that was the Obama position..."You have the option to be poor!"

States may require this, but then that's a State issue, not a Constitutional issue. And anyone who didn't like the State law could merely move to another State.

was the Second Militia Act of 1792 a federal act? or by the states?