Health Care Law Unconstitutional

[Emperor_Gestahl]

Because it was health care costs that caused Greece's economic woes and not other things like Greece being a country where nearly half the population think that taxes are voluntary.

Haha the same thing happened in the Roman Empire. If your tax collectors pose no credible threat they'll be ignored. No matter, the problem in Greece is the same as here, people believing political promises that could never, ever be kept.

 

[AlBell]

So long as governments compel hospitals to treat people for free and laws allow people buy treatment with other people's money, no system is sustainable, in the long run.
The long run is closer than you think.

Here now, and the situation will worsen as long as illegal immigration is allowed and not punished.

 

[Minoosh]

That's odd. A friend of mine suffered a ruptured aortic aneurism (thoracic, I believe) on a golf course in Spain. God only knows how, but they saved him.

Rolfe.

God. Just reading that gave me the willies. I don't know about the thoracic part though. My 39-year-old brother died of one in his peridcardial sac and was probably dead within 4 heartbeats. I heard it said later that you could be on a table with your ribcage open and still possibly not survive. There are also abdominal ruptures, and I suppose small thoracic ones where pressure builds gradually could be drained off during surgery prep.

Your friend really was lucky!

Ah back to the health care act - the feds have just agreed to insure me through a high-risk pool. I sure hope that's still on if the mandate is tossed. I don't mind paying for the insurance but I'd rather have the coverage than not. The model of crossing your fingers and being prepared to go bankrupt does work, in a way ... people do get care ... but it's hard for me to believe that it's the most efficient system.

 

[Minoosh]

Here now, and the situation will worsen as long as illegal immigration is allowed and not punished.

It turns out that policing a 2,000-mile line that runs through very remote areas to make sure no one slips through is ... problematic.

Hey, we agree on some things. But I really don't understand it when people act as if nothing has been done. It has. OT, but it's widely theorized that making it harder to cross has resulted in more net Mexicans in the U.S., due to guys bringing their families because they don't want to risk visiting home. If "punishment" means incarceration (free room, board and medical care!), I don't know how much that would help, fiscally.

 

[jhunter1163]

God. Just reading that gave me the willies. I don't know about the thoracic part though. My 39-year-old brother died of one in his peridcardial sac and was probably dead within 4 heartbeats. I heard it said later that you could be on a table with your ribcage open and still possibly not survive. There are also abdominal ruptures, and I suppose small thoracic ones where pressure builds gradually could be drained off during surgery prep.

Your friend really was lucky!

Ah back to the health care act - the feds have just agreed to insure me through a high-risk pool. I sure hope that's still on if the mandate is tossed. I don't mind paying for the insurance but I'd rather have the coverage than not. The model of crossing your fingers and being prepared to go bankrupt does work, in a way ... people do get care ... but it's hard for me to believe that it's the most efficient system.

I had a thoracic aortic aneurysm repaired about three years ago. They told me that if it had ruptured, chances were I'd have been dead before they could get me to the hospital. The repair was stupidly expensive (well into six figures) but fortunately, I have good health insurance so all it cost me was the $1,000 stop-loss maximum.

And one more point I'd like to make about these giant bills; the doctors can bill all they want, but all they get paid is what the insurance company says they get paid. You could bill $1 million but if the insurance says $20,000, that's what you get, and you get to eat $980,000.

 

[AlBell]

It turns out that policing a 2,000-mile line that runs through very remote areas to make sure no one slips through is ... problematic.

Lacking full militarization, yup, problematic. Agreed that even full militarization would likely be or quickly become ineffective.

Hey, we agree on some things. But I really don't understand it when people act as if nothing has been done. It has. OT, but it's widely theorized that making it harder to cross has resulted in more net Mexicans in the U.S., due to guys bringing their families because they don't want to risk visiting home. If "punishment" means incarceration (free room, board and medical care!), I don't know how much that would help, fiscally.

I'd go with incarceration until the busride back across the border.

 

[Beerina]

You could grant every last claim of the goodness of the law, and have Jesus float down on a cloud and tell you it was the greatest thing since Adam slipped it to Eve, and that's still separate from the constitutionality.

 

[Ryokan]

You may not want to use Greece as your example. Their massive economic problems put a dent in the theory that UHC is affordable and sustainable.

What makes you so sure that it's the UHC that is causing problems in Greece? What about all the other countries with UHC that isn't having the financial troubles Greece does?

It's funny. European countries having financial problems, they're collapsing under the weight of their socialist systems. If the US is having financial troubles, well, it's just a recession and bad economical times. Happens to the best of us.

 

[applecorped]

Grease is the word
Grease is the word, is the word that you heard
It's got groove it's got meaning
Grease is the time, is the place is the motion
Grease is the way we are feeling

 

[mhaze]

What makes you so sure that it's the UHC that is causing problems in Greece? What about all the other countries with UHC that isn't having the financial troubles Greece does?...

What he responded to (as did I).

#373

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

What makes you so sure that it's the UHC that is causing problems in Greece? What about all the other countries with UHC that isn't having the financial troubles Greece does?

It's funny. European countries having financial problems, they're collapsing under the weight of their socialist systems. If the US is having financial troubles, well, it's just a recession and bad economical times. Happens to the best of us.

Entitlements. The State has nationalized the charity industry, broadly speaking (pensions, health care, schools, medical care). These are charity since there is no need to provide them for people who can afford to pay for their own retirement, health care, children's schools, etc. Politicians in democracies and bureaucrats in bureaucratic one-party States use promises to supportive constituencies to ascend the dominance hierarchy. They use their access to the tools of State violence to acquire the resources that back these promises. This creates a classic tragedy of the commons.

 

[applecorped]

Entitlements. The State has nationalized the charity industry, broadly speaking (pensions, health care, schools, medical care). These are charity since there is no need to provide them for people who can afford to pay for their own retirement, health care, children's schools, etc. Politicians in democracies and bureaucrats in bureaucratic one-party States use promises to supportive constituencies to ascend the dominance hierarchy. They use their access to the tools of State violence to acquire the resources that back these promises. This creates a classic tragedy of the commons.

QFT